Are Parts kits illegal?

[krupparms]

A friend of mine wants to build a AK rifle. He got a receiver & now wants a parts kit to complete it. He was offered a parts kit that has all the parts for the inside, including the full-auto parts. Even though his receiver isn't cut to accept those parts & he dosnt plan to include them. I advised him not to buy it as I thought it was illegal to have all the parts for a full-auto gun. Even if it was not ment to be assembled that way . Did I give him bad advice? Can he order that parts kit? Can someone have all the parts for a M.G.if it is not assembled?

 

[Sam1911]

The parts kits I bought years ago all had the full fire control group included. The standard advice was to toss those out.

Drilling the hole to install the rate reducer ("auto sear") makes the firearm a machine gun in the eyes of the BATFE. Having some parts you can't install PROBABLY isn't a problem, but I don't know any builders who keep them when they put their AKs together.

Here's a parts kit seller I picked at random (http://armsofamerica.com/polishakm-47partskit.aspx) and if you look at the pictures they all come with the full original trigger kit.

 

[IdahoSkies]

Free legal advice is worth what you pay for it. More so when its for someone else. If you want a rock clad answer, higher your own.

That said, parts kits are fine. People buy the, and build them all the time. If you receive is not capable of using a full auto sear, its not constructive possession. Folks use "m16" bolts in their ARs all the time.

Buy the AK kit, build it, and shoot it a lot.

 

[zoom6zoom]

I don't think I've ever seen a kit without the original parts. Just pitch them. Pretty much everyone replaces them with a US made trigger group to help meet 922(r) compliance anyway.

 

[Jaymo]

Plus, the US trigger groups usually give you a better trigger pull, anyway.

 

[wally]

I wouldn't toss the FA parts, they might have collector value someday down the road or be useful for a "dummy gun" if it ends up that's all we can have. Its not like they take up a lot of storage space.

 

[zoom6zoom]

Did I mention that ALG is introducting an AK trigger set at the SHOT show? Some of my Tapcos may be getting replaced.

 

[lilguy]

So this is the kit you're talking about? Just buy a barrel and a receiver from an FFL and you got a working AK47 when you're done?



https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/co...47-parts-kit-fixed-stock-detail.html?Itemid=0

 

[krupparms]

I was wrong & I will tell him. I did tell him he could probably get the information online from the BATF. He is not a computer owner. Hates them! I don't keep up with these laws anymore as am not building firearms & not into ownin MGs. Not that I don't like them! Just have no need for one & could not afford to feed one! I will pass on the information to him. But I still am going to tell him he should go online & get a hard copy of the current laws . I would. Thanks for the quick responses. I always learn something new here & appreciate the responses I receive . HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL! THANKS

 

[HankB]

Generally speaking, having an internal firearm part that cannot be installed in any firearm you have is not going to be illegal. (Some exceptions - for example, I'm fairly certain a DIAS - drop in auto sear - for an AR15 is illegal even if you don't own an AR15.)

As for assembling a semi-auto AK from a parts kit, wouldn't 922(r) still apply, which requires a certain minimum number of "Made in USA" parts for a newly-made rifle to be legal? An imported parts kit, even with the FA parts discarded and replaced with domestic SA parts, might still need a few more parts to build a compliant rifle.

 

[medalguy]

Possession of any combination of parts in a kit is NOT illegal unless the host receiver is cut to accept and use the FA parts, whether an AR15 or an AK. Here's a quote from a BATFE regulation:

ATF P 5300.4 (9/05), Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide – 2005, p. 155

The definition of machinegun also includes a combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person. An example of a firearm meeting this section of the definition is a semiautomatic AR15 rifle possessed with an M16 bolt carrier, hammer, trigger, disconnector and selector. If the semiautomatic AR15 is assembled with the described M16 parts and the rifle is capable of fully automatic fire, the weapon possessed in conjunction with the M16 parts, whether assembled or not, is a machinegun as defined.

If the weapon is NOT capable of fully automatic fire, then it is not a machine gun.

 

[Sunray]

No mention of the R&R parts in the Arms Of America or Atlantic Firearms ads either. And they're demilled.
Kind of suspect you did your buddy a favour by telling him not to waste the $300 on stuff he'll never use. That'd buy him 1,000 rounds of ammo.

 

[Sam1911]

No mention of the R&R parts in the Arms Of America or Atlantic Firearms ads either

They appear to be pictured in both ads. In the Atlantic Firearms ad they'd be in the plastic baggie of small parts.

And they're demilled.

Well...duh. That's kind of the point in these parts kids, you know. If they weren't demilled, we'd be calling them a rifle]/i], not a parts kit.

Kind of suspect you did your buddy a favour by telling him not to waste the $300 on stuff he'll never use.

Uh...what? Do you not understand the point of the exercise? The $300 gets you a parts kit. That kit comes with a cut-up receiver and some full auto parts which are useless. They aren't part of the value you're paying for. You're paying for the OTHER parts (trunions, bolt, bolt carrier, gas tube, sights, stock, etc.) that you'll then use with a new US-manufactured receiver to construct a "new" semi-auto rifle.

That'd buy him 1,000 rounds of ammo.

For the rifle he hasn't built?

 

[gojuice101]

I know for a fact that the Atlantic Firearms parts kits come with all the full auto parts, because I bought one recently. In fact, every parts kit I've seen comes with the original full auto parts. This includes both AK and AR parts kits. So its not unusual that the kit includes the full auto parts, and there's no problem legally if you don't have a receiver they can go in (i.e. a receiver with the third hole drilled on AKs and ARs).

 

[hamp sandwich]

I'd like to add something... Building is a labor of love, and often costs more than buying a complete firearm. Sure, parts kits don't always cost too much, but tooling, time and other necessary parts can drive the cost right up. There is also the all important factor of ensuring that the build follows local and federal laws, and I'm not even talking about the FA parts.. 922r is probably the biggest concern, and quite possibly the easiest thing to mess up in some cases. Even builders break down and buy a complete gun now and then.

 

[krupparms]

He did get a U.S.made receiver already & he has access to a machine shop along with some experience. I am pretty sure he will finish his project. He was also made aware that he needed U.S. made parts to comply with the law. I am still thanking it would be better to buy the parts separate. As he wants to build a 'custom' AK & would be replacing alot of what he got in the parts kit with parts that are made here or be replaced anyway.I did pass on the information that his receiver was leagle, but if it was able to take the F.A.parts it would be illegal . I did convince him to go online & get a copy of the rules & laws that cover this issue. I appreciate the answers I have received. They are very helpful. Thanks Again! H.N.Y. to ALL!

 

[Sam1911]

I am still thanking it would be better to buy the parts separate.

How, exactly? Without getting a parts kit, where is he going to get the barrel trunion, rear block, gas tube, bolt, carrier, safety lever, sights, and all the other bits and pieces?

As he wants to build a 'custom' AK & would be replacing alot of what he got in the parts kit with parts that are made here or be replaced anyway.

He might want a new stock and pistol grip (that would be part of his 922(r) plan anyway, most likely) but collecting up every other piece he needs would be a pain.

I did pass on the information that his receiver was leagle, but if it was able to take the F.A.parts it would be illegal .

That comes down to whether or not he bores the "third pin" hole. No manufacturer of AK receivers is going to sell one like that, so as long as he doesn't get out the drill and do it himself, he's fine.

 

[krupparms]

I showed this thread to my friend. After seeing it he decided & I had to agree there is no reason not to buy the parts kit. He will end up with some extra parts, but he will have what he needs. I appreciate the advice. I am glad I am not wanting to build one myself. I am glad I was able to buy a Norinco AK that works fine. I will leave the building to others. Thank you for the input .He did poke some good natured fun at me for being wrong, but did appreciate the advice . He is going to see if he can get a hard copy with all the appropriate laws & regulations before he continued his project. Thanks to all who gave their opinion & advice.

 

[barnbwt]

They are not "extra" so much as "useless," since you can't do anything with them but modify them for semi-auto (which is hardly worth doing with all the affordable domestic options of higher quality that also count towards 922r compliance --you and your buddy read up on that statute for a few fortnights as well, if you haven't, before he completes his build )

"I am still thanking it would be better to buy the parts separate. As he wants to build a 'custom' AK & would be replacing alot of what he got in the parts kit with parts that are made here or be replaced anyway"
AKs aren't ARs. He won't be replacing much at all.

TCB

 

[zoom6zoom]

Stamped AKs will require six US parts for compliance. He's already going to be using the receiver and likely a US barrel, so that's two. Add a trigger group gets you to five, then one more. Easiest is the muzzle device, or pistol grip.

 

[Armymutt]

I think a US mag also counts as 3 parts. If he's folding his own receiver, he can build a jig from 2 pieces of bar stock, 4 bolts, and 8 nuts. Another 2 pieces of bar stock - one hot rolled, one cold, and he'll have it made.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Possession of any combination of parts in a kit is NOT illegal unless the host receiver is cut to accept and use the FA parts, whether an AR15 or an AK.

Forget the minutia: this is the only thing you need to know.

Having said that, whether or not you own the individual FA parts, owning a receiver that can readily accept all of them does constitute possession of a MG. A semi-auto AR can take all the M16 parts except the auto sear, which is the case for many semi-auto designs based on FA weapons. Without the auto sear, they are not capable of FA fire*, hence not MGs. No third hole in your AR or AK receiver, no problem.

*This is assuming that you don't have some other drop-in part that makes them FA. Drop in auto sears, lightning links, etc, do constitute machine guns, as would any modification that makes the weapon capable of FA fire, even if it is slam-firing to do so.