Are Sabots supposed to be this hard to Load?

Status
Not open for further replies.
M

madsend81

Member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
77
Location
Lakewood, CA
Hello everyone.

I'm normally a patch and ball shooter with my .50 Hawken, but I decided to try my hand at an inline. I've heard sabots are supposed to be better performing with the inlines but also are a bit tougher to load. I recently acquired a .50 cal inline and picked up some bargain sabots which came with matched bullets (I wasn't trying to skimp, just thought I'd start with the least expensive load and work my way up the $$ ladder until I found a load that worked).

I took the rifle and bullets home and did a trial fit to see how they would work before I got to the range. That thing wouldn't get past the end of the barrel! I ended up leaving a ring on the face of the lead bullet from the ram rod. Is a sabot supposed to be this tough to load? My patch and balls require a bit of effort, but this is ridiculous! Being an engineer, I whipped out my calipers and measured the I.D. of the bore to be .502 land to land. The sabot with bullet was .507 O.D. That's .005" interference! In my professional line of work (mechanical engineering), that's a huge interference on a 1/2" diameter. A true force fit, not a sliding fit like I would have anticipated.

I'm planning on moving on to a different Sabot/bullet combo, but I would like to get some opinions on an economical sabot that will work. If you can provide specs on the O.D. of the sabot you use, that will help.

Thanks!
Dave in So. CA
 
The sabots have different diameters.
MMP makes 3 different sizes:

HPH12 at .507 - .508
HPH24 at .505 - .506
3PetalEZ at .502 - .504

http://www.mmpsabots.com/

Harvester makes sabots with either a solid petal or a crushed rib design for easier loading:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduc...nting Accessories-_-PriceCompListing-_-884314

http://www.cabelas.com/sabots-bulle...-958E-DF11-A0C8-002219318F67&mr:referralID=NA

http://www.harvesterbullets.com/

The sabots and bullets can be bought separately in bulk so that you know which size they are.
 
Last edited:
i had the same trouble with my 50 cal hawken with sabots and bullets
it was so frustrating to load i gave up and went back to just round
patched round balls.

im sure there are better ones to load but i mainly plink with it so the round balls work fine.

i remember when the barrel got fouled it became much harder to
load.
 
Thanks for the comments...
frontiergander said:
What rifle are you shooting?
Click to expand...
It's a Traditions Buckstalker. I didn't want to invest too much if I decided I didn't want to get too much into the sport. I work a lot with the boy scouts and mainly wanted a rifle to compare traditional vs modern rifles for them. I'll also use it for plinking.

In-line barrel diameters aren't standardized.
Click to expand...
That's why I measured the ID of the barrel to see what I was dealing with, but only after I had trouble inserting the sabot.

i had the same trouble with my 50 cal hawken with sabots and bullets
it was so frustrating to load i gave up and went back to just round
patched round balls.
Click to expand...
I have no intention of trying them in my 50 cal hawken either. Patch and ball work just fine in that puppy. But the Inline has a higher rate of twist and I don't think the patch and ball will be very effective. I will try it out at the range just to be sure, but I want a sabot to compare it with.

Arcticap- thanks for the specs on the mmp sabots. Their prices don't look too bad either. I might try a bag of the HPH24's and one of the 3PetalEZ's.
 
My Buddy and I both own T/C Omegas and his rifle is more difficult to load the Sabot that we both shoot due to differences in bore diameters.
The T/C Super Glide sabots seem to load much easier.
 
I have a buckstalker, and it's hard to load too. I switched to powerbelts, and they are easy to load. Not a sabot, but they work!
 
Should Not

The Knight inline was the only inline rifles I had ever used. Ended up with three. Knight went out of the business or something. Sold all three of them. Yep should have kept one of them. After that I tried TC inline never looked back. Starting out with the Black diamond, used it for a while finely sold it, it was a find rifle in it's day. Didn't like the blow back those rifles had around the scope, reel mess to clean up after a day of shooting. The new breed of inline rifles showed up, the brake opens. I tried out one of the TC Impact rifles. TC backs up there stuff nuff said. The crush ribs with .44 or .45 cal bullets are the easiest sabot to load in it. None of the older sabot will load easy in them. My hawken .50 cal you would have to stand on it to get one of those things down the barrel, so I don't fool with the sabot bullets for that rifle. 50 cal rd ball on deer is deer for many suppers. TC maxi ball, and hunter type bullets are good if you want more punch. A day of shooting with the rifles is an all day thing with me, really don't care for scopes on my Black powder rifles. There's only one more sabot bullet that is worth a try, the SSTs, with that sabot I would want to mount my scope on, and reach on out there.
 
Success!

I checked my mail when I got home today and my order from MMP for the HPH24's and 3Petal-EZ arrived. I have to say it arrived quicker than I was expecting.

I tried the HPH24 first. It measured .505 OD and was quite tight, although I could feel it slowly slipping down the barrel. Too tight for comfort though. I removed it and inspected the sabot. The lands were scrapping parts of the sabot off as it went down the barrel.

Next I tried the 3Petal-EZ. It measured .502 OD. I could push it down with some effort using my thumb. Using the ramrod, it felt similar to a patch and ball going down my .50 Hawken. Inspecting the sabot, I found some marks left by the rifling, but no gouging like I saw with the HPH24. I think the 3Petal-EZ is where I am going to start.

Thank you for your help and suggestions everyone, especially Arcticap for leading me over to MMP. Sometime I'll have to try the Harvester Crush Ribbed Sabots.

Now I have something to work with when I go to the range this weekend. I'll be sure to post results when I get back (assuming the wife doesn't have a honey-do list waiting for me first)
 
I have a bunch of those 385 grain Remington muzzle loader slugs. I have to use a hammer on the short starter, but once it is in, I can push it in with the rod with the normal amount of force.
 
I tried the sabots with no luck as far as accuracy goes. (50 cal CVA)
Could not get a patched ball to shoot at all.
TC 385gr MaxiHunter shoots 70 yard cloverleafs.
 
Results from the range.

Well, I went to the range yesterday and tried the 3Petal-EZ sabots from MMP with a .45 soft lead bullet. Nothing to shout about.

There wasn't any consistency between shots. At 100 yds with 70 and 80 grns of Schutzen BP the pattern was all over the place. I also noticed that fouling buildup was quite quick and subsequent loads were tougher to push down. I did swab after about 3 loads, but I still didn't see much accuracy.

I might try some conical rounds next time, or play around with the powder charge.

I also noticed that the soft lead rounds were exhibiting some deformation from the ram rod pushing down the barrel. Perhaps that was affecting the accuracy.

So many variables to play around with for one desired outcome. But isn't that why we all got into BP in the first place?:D
 
I do have to say, though, that clean up was quite quick using a bucket of hot soapy water. After plunging a few times, second patch came through clean. Sent a dry patch down and lightly wiped with machine oil for storage. Took all of about 15 minutes and I was done. (with that rifle). Hawken only took 15 minutes as well.
 
arcticap said:
Was their accuracy any better at 50 yards?
Click to expand...
I didn't try 50 yds. I noticed the rifle was overshooting the target at 100 yrds by at least 8" and the rear sight was almost as low as it could go. I was a bit limited on time and wasn't able to try it at 50 yrds.

Next time I go I'll have to see how it does.
 
In the early days of sabots they were reputed to be prone to leaving plastic in the bore. I witnessed such a situation when a friend showed up at a casual shoot with the then new sabots. About six shots later after swabbing between shots he got a round hopelessly stuck half way down the bore. We tried everything to no avail to drive the round down or pull the round out that was the end of his shooting for the day.
I don't know if they've improved the plastic but I've done just fine without the use of sabots. Between patched round ball, maxi balls and mini balls I've got enough variables to keep me happy.
 
The guns with a medium rate of twist do require more powder to stabilize saboted bullets especially at longer distances.
The saboted bullets require additional velocity and "RPM's" to stabilize so more powder is required.
90 - 100 grains of powder is usually enough to stabilize the bullet at moderate range. And nearly that much is needed to stabilize the bullet even from a barrel having a much faster twist and sometimes even slightly more powder.
I have one 1 in 48" rifle that will shoot with pinpoint accuracy at 50 yards with a 240 grain saboted bullet loaded with 90 grains of Pyrodex P.
So don't give up until all of the loading options are exhausted.
It's the first shot out of a cold clean barrel that counts the most when hunting, and saboted bullets have the potential to produce fine 1st shot accuracy if the right load can be found that will work with your rifle.
Swab the barrel in between each shot and there's always different bullet weights to try. With slower twists, the slightly lighter and shorter bullets should be easier to stabilize like those that weigh 250 grains or less.
 
Last edited:
i smear a little bore butter on the outside of my sabots to help loading of them. all i have shot has been hornady and harvestors, but that little trick helps get them into the bore. i dont think the lube last far beond the first 6" or so. but it helps get them started. also, for range work, i bought a seperate range rod. it is aluminum, and i installed a wooden cabinette knob onto it to make pushing projectiles down the bore easier.
 
I have a CVA optima that was super tight to load sabots. I switched to the thinner MMP sabots and it loads great now.
 
the tc sabots should be fine. my traditions 50 calibers all seem to like the standard .495 diameter projectile down teh barrel. i believe the manual says what size diameter to use.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

C
  • Locked
In-Line Percussion Modern 50cal loading question?
2
Replies
27
Views
2K
mustanger
M
M
  • Locked
CVA Apollo Maximum Charge
Replies
5
Views
1K
smokemaker
S
TomADC
  • Locked
Hornady Sabots
Replies
2
Views
375
GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL
G
T
  • Locked
Cast Keith semi wadcutter Keiths in Optima sabot loads?
Replies
1
Views
605
Patocazador
Patocazador
L
  • Locked
Thompson center impact ball starter
Replies
4
Views
503
readyeddy
R
Back
Top