Are Sights Really Necessary on a Concealed Carry Pistol?

Alllen Bundy

Alllen Bundy

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A retired armorer in my apartment building made the claim that sights really aren't necessary for concealed carry pistols. He claimed that the sights just slow you down.

As I now have both a P365 and a P365XL, my P365 is now my backup pistol and my P365XL is my EDC. I had made a few modifications to both pistols and needed to test them at the range. I also had a new pair of sights ordered for my P365. I figured that it would be a perfect time to test the armorers claim, so I removed the sights from my P365.

At 7 yards with my P365 without sights, my accuracy wasn't any worse than my P365XL with sights. I was surprised by just how easy it was to sight along the top of slide. It certainly did not take any longer than using sights. But I don't know that it was any faster to not use the sights. Maybe I could have reduced my target acquisition time with more practice without sights. HOWEVER, in poor lighting conditions I think that it would be faster to acquire the target with sights.

For short distances the sights aren't a necessity. But there is no way that I would want to take a 25 yard shot without sights.

But what is FAR more important than the sights is proper grip on the pistol and pulling the trigger smoothly so you do not pull or push your point of impact off target.

I find that for my very long fingers that the optimum finger position on the trigger is about 1/4"from the first finger joint. In this position my finger neither pushes the POI to the left or pulls it to the right. The tighter I grip the pistol the less effect my finger position has on the POI. If I don't grip my pistol tightly enough my finger pulls the POI downward.

While most self defense situations are probably going to occur at very close range, there is always the possibility of needing to make a long range shot. In conclusion, I'll carry with sights on my pistol. But it was an interesting experiment.
 
Lots of training tactical cool guys will tell you that if you are not seeing your sights you need to train more.

I think the reality is the vast majority of the time you will never pick up your sights. That's not to say that they are not necessary. To the contrary. There are plenty of circumstances where they are used. But go watch Active Self Protection you Youtube. He has hundreds of self defense videos and if you pay attention you will see that hardly any of them actually pick up a good sight picture before firing.

And, to your point, I am usually pretty surprised how accurate I can shoot without using the sights. Out to 15 yards at least.
 
You get the fight you get - we don’t get to pick our encounter where we have to deploy our cc firearm.
That said, I think folks put way too much “thought” into their sights for their cc pistol. Odds are, I’d bet, that your sights won’t really come into play. I’m also betting any such encounter is going to be at bad breath distance.

I personally believe KISS when it comes to your sights on your cc weapon. I also don’t think electronics belong on a cc weapon. I’m not going to give Mr Murphy any edge in a potential deadly encounter.
 
On a somewhat related note - I sometimes see guns that appear to be designed for concealed carry with what I consider chunky and snag-prone front sights (and/or rear sights). Granted that I understand there is a benefit to be had there...

I have spent all this time dealing with a typical ramp front sight found on a small revolver.
So maybe I am just used to a subpar front sight.


At any rate - I don't envision using them too much anyway if things are serious, close and quick.
 
Sights arent necessary until they are. Simple as that.

If you present the gun and shoot quickly "using" the sights, you're training your brain to shoot that way without them at the same time. Its picking up all the other cues and indexes it needs to know what things should look like to make good hits as you shoot.

Once you get to the point of being able to shoot without thinking about it, and letting the"Zen" part of it take over, its not that youre shooting without sights, just your bran is multitasking and letting you focus on the target/threat and handling the alignment/indexing part of the gun in the subconscious. You will get good hits and it'll almost seem to easy.

Your focus should be on the target, especially up close, and you really shouldn't be looking at the sights. You can present the gun and close your eyes and shoot and you'll still make good hits right where you were looking when the shot breaks. But you do need to put in the necessary leg work in practice to accomplish that and be comfortable shooting that way. Up close, Im normally shooting just over top of the gun, with it at extension and just below my line of sight. My focus is on the part of the target that I want to hit.

Rex Applegate had a pretty good primer to help get you started and takes you to a deeper level, if you haven't or arent familiar with shooting this way. Its somewhat dated compared to whats taught today, but the basics are solid and work well. His stuff is well worth reading.
 
Sights only slow you down if you're using them to steer the muzzle where you want it pointed and/or if your index is so poor that you have to hunt for the sights and/or you spend more time than is necessary for a given shot admiring the sight picture before you press the trigger. If your index is good and repeatable and you learn to use the sights as confirmation when calling shots, only seeing what you need to see for a given shot, it's not going to slow you down much if any at all.

On a related note, not using the actual sights is not necessarily unsighted fire. There are a variety alternative visual indicators that people can and have used effectively to confirm alignment of the gun with the target for a long time. Most people start doing it anyway at some point, even if they don't realize what is happening. They believe that because they didn't see the sights in a conventional sight picture that they are point shooting. In some cases they may be, but a lot of people are using the position of the slide or the image of the rear of the gun that got programmed into their brains when they were using the sights normally.
 
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Mod your grip so sights seemingly align on their own. For me that was an arched MS housing on a 1911 and slab grips ( no wrap around ). Nice feature on some HKs ( and others ) are the interchangeable side panels and backstraps.
 
Alllen Bundy said:
But what is FAR more important than the sights is proper grip on the pistol and pulling the trigger smoothly so you do not pull or push your point of impact off target.
Click to expand...

This concept can't be repeated often enough. The most perfect sight picture in the history of sight pictures can't compensate for failing to keep the muzzle aligned with the target during the trigger press and until the bullet leaves the barrel. Too many people blame marksmanship failures on sights/no sights when the real culprit is that they moved or allowed to move the muzzle of the gun before the bullet exited. The details in how to maintain alignment of the gun through the trigger press are open for discussion.
 
rhino465 said:
This concept can't be repeated often enough. The most perfect sight picture in the history of sight pictures can't compensate for failing to keep the muzzle aligned with the target during the trigger press and until the bullet leaves the barrel. Too many people blame marksmanship failures on sights/no sights when the real culprit is that they moved or allowed to move the muzzle of the gun before the bullet exited. The details in how to maintain alignment of the gun through the trigger press are open for discussion.
Click to expand...
While I believe sights are much more of a necessity than many who have commented already, I do agree as a LE firearms instructor that about 90% (if not 95% or 98%) of problem shooters are having trigger control issues more than anything else. Some shooters are very resistant to ending recoil anticipation.

And my belief in using sights does not negate the fact that there is benefit to training to shoot faster than you will be able to pick up and align sights at 5 yards and in. A common method of "using" sights at much greater speed is simply putting the FSP on target and squeezing without necessarily paying any attention to alignment with rear sights. At 5 and in this will get good hits with practice, especially used with consistent grip and hand placement and a good consistent (and heavily practiced) draw and presentation.
 
lysanderxiii said:
Can you guarantee all encounters will be in the instinctive point-and-hit range?
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You cant guarantee anything. Its up to you to cover all the bases and be the best you can at as many as you can. And truthfully, if you're carrying a gun, that is your responsibility. ;)

Mostly Lead said:
What scenario are you seeing, outside that range, that would still be considered "self defense"? Serious question, because I'm drawing a blank...
Click to expand...
Self defense is self defense. There is no magic cut off or number where it isn't.

I do think most people have taken things seriously enough to even know what real world distances are, and may need to be dealt with, especially when you see how popular all the little pocket guns are these days and carried as a primary gun.

A simple place to figure things out is your local supermarket, box store, mall, etc, or the parking lot outside. Just walking around town or where ever you live. Dont be too surprised where a "close" shot, might just be more than 25 yards. ;)

Not everything is going to be point blank like you're constantly told. You need to be well versed with whatever you carry at realistic distances. If you get caught where you cant run off, then you're just going to have to do "something".
 
Sites are a good idea if you can remember. In the real world shooting to save your life you're probably not even gonna remember how many shots you fired let alone if your sites were lined up.

Force on force training is good with simmunitions. You will learn a lot about yourself.
 
For aimed fire, which is anything outside of contact range, practice bringing the front sight into my sightline.

As range increases, the rear sight alignment becomes more critical.

Only hits count, so don't be in a hurry to miss.
 
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Like the Caliber Wars, no Definitive Answer. Ed McGivern made in clear that in his rapid fire the sights WERE used, don't recall Charlie Askins saying they weren't.
 
I think what is more important here is, what "you" do with the gun "you" use, and not so much what others do and use.

I saw a video of Gabe Suarez shooting a Glock with no sights on it from point blank out to about 50 yards, and he made solid hits on a silloutte target at every stop along the way.

Ive seen people with sights have trouble just making decent hits at 5 yards.

You get out of this what you put in, and this isn't the Matrix, where you can just absorb things by talking about them. You actually do have to put the work in to get and stay good.

Point/unsighted shooting isn't hard, but you do have to do it to get good at it. Same goes for shooting quickly in bursts, drawing and shooting, shooting while you move, and everything/anything else you might run into trying to get somewhat proficient.
 
The best gun money I've ever spent was to buy Tom Givens' book Concealed Carry Class.

Its $24 on Amazon.

Chapter 12 goes into much more detail about the range of distances and number of shots that citizen defenders are likely to need to train for. Worth your time.

One data point that emerged from the shootings involving Tom's students that might apply to this topic: the vast majority involved shooting with two hands with the gun at eye level (presumably using the sights). As a result, the hit ratio is running around 95%. IOW, 19 of each 20 shots taken hit the intended target.

Since only hits count, and using sights is a really good way to ensure hits, then for me, sights are, and will continue to be, pretty important on my carry guns.
 
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