Are these modifications ill-advised?

[DeadCalm]

There are two long-arms I'm thinking of modifying (some might say, "butchering"). Both come down from relatives long gone.

Gun number one is a Winchester M75, .22 LR, target barrel, and target sights. The barrel bluing is pitted from decades in an attic on the Pacific coast. Stock is OK but not in exceptional condition. I would chop the barrel to 18-20"; reshape and refinish the stock; and remove the iron sights, drilling and tapping for a like-new set of Buehler bases and rings (among his last made) and a Leopold 4x .22 scope, also like new.

Gun number two is a Winchester M1897 12 gauge, c. early 1900s. Full choke, 28" barrel; finish worn to being almost "in the white". Stock is well worn with no major damage. I would chop the barrel, re-blue all exterior metal, and refinish the stock.

So, are these changes akin to eating one's children, or more simply making two impractical-for-me guns, practical? I have other period firearms and I enjoy their quality and feel more than anything else in my "collection." I would especially like to get the .22 scope-mounted. Also, both would create something unique but practical to pass down later.

I am very respectful of the historic values of firearms, and have others such that I would never modify. Can I fudge these two a little? Thanks for your thoughts.

Ross Bellingham

 

[Thernlund]

I personally would just have them refinished and NOT chop the barrels.


-T.

 

[Grandpa Shooter]

Obviously it is your choice. If those guns were two classic cars you inherited would you chop and lower them to suit you, or restore them to the condition they were in when new?

Which of those options makes the most sense in terms of honoring the people who passed them down vs altering them for your use. As they are now they have little value so I don't see it as an economic issue.

 

[qajaq59]

Are you thinking of chopping off the barrels for a specific reason? Such as they might shoot better? If so, I've yet to see very many guns with shortened barrels that were improved by the change. But they belong to you, so it's your decision.

 

[stellarpod]

The 1897 is real popular with the Cowboy Action crowd. And the worn patina just makes it look more authentic. Chances are you could sell that old shotgun for a lot more money than you think, allowing you to buy something that suits you more. I assume from the fact that your willing to chop up these two inherited guns that they hold no real sentimental value to you.

Personally, I wouldn't do the modifications.

stellarpod

 

[bannockburn]

DeadCalm

I understand where you're coming from because I too had that same dilemma. I inherited my father's single shot .22 from when he was a kid, growing up in the '30's. Even new, I doubt it ever had any collector value, and since then it only became more worn and rusted over the years. So I cleaned it up as best I could, and then I debated: should I have it reblued and refinish the stock, basically restoring it to where it would look like new; or should I just leave it as is, preserving it like I have with all the memories I've shared with my father. I opted for leaving it as is because that's how my father used it, and that's how I would want to remember it as being.

 

[Monkeybear]

I see no reason not to cut the barrels and refinish them as long as they are not collectables. Enjoy them, there is a huge difference between a $200 used gun and a classic car.

 

[rbernie]

Gun number two is a Winchester M1897 12 gauge, c. early 1900s. Full choke, 28" barrel; finish worn to being almost "in the white". Stock is well worn with no major damage. I would chop the barrel, re-blue all exterior metal, and refinish the stock.

This one actually has some value in its current state. If you want a shooter, sell this to someone who wants a real historic 1897 and buy a Norinco copy to plink with.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

This one actually has some value in its current state. If you want a shooter, sell this to someone who wants a real historic 1897 and buy a Norinco copy to plink with.

No, shoot the one you have. You won't detract any more value by shooting it. Why would you want a copy when you have the rteal thing? I wouldn't refinish it. I would be tempted to have a smith cut the barrel down to 20", but I'd have to think about it long and hard. I think I'd look for a second barrel before having that one cut.

 

[highorder]

The 1897 is real popular with the Cowboy Action crowd. And the worn patina just makes it look more authentic. Chances are you could sell that old shotgun for a lot more money than you think, allowing you to buy something that suits you more. I assume from the fact that your willing to chop up these two inherited guns that they hold no real sentimental value to you.

+1

I see no reason to chop the barrels on either gun. You can find another barrel for the 1897 if you must have a shorter one.

Why do you want to chop the barrels off?

 

[cracked butt]

Sell both guns to people who might appreciate them and use the money to buy something more to your liking.

 

[bikerdoc]

plus 10

 

[Wayne02]

You should do what YOU want to do, not what other people think you should do. As far as I'm concerned we spend far too much energy worrying about what other people think of us.

Chop it, modify it the way YOU want it. Furthermore, I'm not in the sell it and buy something else club. Again, this is a family firearm and it makes no sense to sell it when you can modify it to your liking and pass it on down the line when you expire.

Stand up and do what you want with YOUR gun and let other people think whatever they will, for in the final analysis it's your life, your gun, and your desires.

 

[JColdIron]

I see no reason to chop the barrels on either gun. You can find another barrel for the 1897 if you must have a shorter one.

The shotgun in question is surprisingly valuable as is. If you need a shorty get a barrel for it. Much cheaper in the long run. You will kick yourself it you ever decide to sell it.

 

[stellarpod]

Wayne02:

I'd respectfully remind you that DeadCalm solicited our opinons.

So, are these changes akin to eating one's children, or more simply making two impractical-for-me guns, practical?

They were not thrust upon him without request. Based upon the question he raised above, are we out of line for offering up an answer? Or is he somehow the lesser for asking? I don't think so.

Obviously he's wrestling with the issue. A little outside perspective was solicited and I believe he's right in asking for it.

stellarpod

 

[lefteye]

I definitely would not modify the '97 but would probably be inclined to have the 75 barrel professionally repaired.

They have economic, historic, and perhaps sentimental value.

I have my grandfather's Models 1890, 1892 and 1897. The 90 and 97 have almost no blue left, but no rust or damage. The 92 is excellent. I clean them, hold them, rarely shoot them and keep them in my "safe" (Ft. Knox RSC). They may not be priceless, but their value to me is far above their market value.

 

[siglite]

The shotgun in question is surprisingly valuable as is. If you need a shorty get a barrel for it. Much cheaper in the long run. You will kick yourself it you ever decide to sell it.

How valuable? I have one in the safe that's been sitting in there for ages. It was inherited, but has no known "history" of any note. I'm not real sure why my grandfather even had it or how he came by it. It was not a gun he used for hunting. He had a matched set of browning A5s he hunted with (12ga and sweet 16) and those are not going ANYWHERE.

 

[DeadCalm]

Thank you for your responses. The reasons for altering the guns are straightforward. Although I target shoot informally, I don’t have use for the M75’s long barrel and heavy weight. I’m trying to morph it into a handy, lighter-weight field rifle. I also need a home for the scope and rings I mentioned, and this seems like a good place. Also, the relative who left it inflicted horrible abuse on his immediate family. It has more anti-sentiment attached to it than anything.

I don’t hunt waterfowl and a shorter barrel on the M 97 shotgun makes more sense for upland game, which I do hunt. I’d also like to have it as a backup “guest gun” for friends I take to the field. However, if the gun were worth something I’d rather sell it. The grandfather who owned it left me a few other guns that I am very attached to, but this just isn’t one of those. Can anyone elaborate on the value of this piece as-is?

Thanks for your help.

 

[moooose102]

imo, do what you want to the 22, unless they only made a handfull, there is probably no collector value anyway. but the shotgun, being so old, i would seriously seek the advice of a gunsmith. if there is collector value, AND it can be restored to bring big bucks. i would go that route. then you could buy whatever you really wanted instad of chopping and making do with a gun just because it didnt cost you anything. plus, if it can be restored to excellent condition, you could save a peice of history. it probably would make you feel pretty good inside after you did it.

 

[Vaarok]

I would concur with the recommendation not to modify the Winchester 97, said shotgun with a factory-original barrel and no changes to finish is generally worth $600-800 for general use, and could be worth significantly more if it happens to be of an early date, but a shortened or refinished one probably won't top $450.

A Norinco clone as a surrogate would be inexpensive, and a replacement barrel of a shorter length is an even more inexpensive nonpermanent modification that will completely preserve the collector value of the shotgun.

Bluing is overrated.

 

[ScottsGT]

I'm eyeing a stock '97 right now priced at $300. Planning on cutting it down to 20" unless I can find another barrel to cut down. All the Cowboy guys want $425+ for their '97's their parting with.

 

[dirtyjim]

they are your guns, do whatever you want with them.
i've tried to sell two win 97's that were both in very good mechanical shape just very worn finish & i ended up parting them out on epay & got close to triple what anyone would even offer at 3 or 4 gunshows. one of them was even a short barreled brush gun.
i gave them several chances & told them if they couldn't give $250 on the first 97 & $300 on the brush gun they would be parted out after the next show. they all said don't part them out bring them to the next show & we'll have the money for then.
the next show came around & they only wanted to offer $150 a piece for them. one dimwit even offered to trade a refinished argentine 1927 for both shotguns plus $200, this was back when the argie 1927's were going for around $275-300.
i'm not into 97's & i guess no one at the houston area shows was either so they got parted out & put close to $900 in the bank.

 

[Cosmoline]

Gun number two is a Winchester M1897 12 gauge, c. early 1900s.

Do not touch this one. It has significant value since most of these were modified. There are sub-types of enormous value and it's a bad idea to hack before you know. A new shotgun you can modify to your heart's content will only cost a few hundred bucks at most. The patina and wear do not detract from the value a tenth what a reblue would.

I don't know enough about the other to comment specifically, other than to say I've never known anything good to come from hacking a vintage Winchester! I wouldn't do anything significant to either, since there's no good reason to. I would, however, shoot and enjoy them.

What bothers me more than the loss of monetary value is really the arrogance of hacking. There's an assumption that the modern way is the only good way. IMHO with historic arms you should approach them with an open mind and learn their inherent values. That's part of their heritage, back when sporting shotguns had longer barrels and folks knew how to use iron sights. Hacking the shotgun barrel and tearing off iron sights is above all arrogant, and assumes that the way we do things now is automatically superior. It's narrow minded.

So I say you should leave them as is but do take them shooting.

 

[blackhawk2000]

I've got some old guns I inherited. They aren't worth much, but I only plan on refinishing them. I could see chopping the .22, but I wouldn't touch the gauge.