Are these the "good old days" for military type rifles?

[trbon8r]

I was just thinking about how over the last 15+ years since King Bush's '89 importation ban things have really changed for the better for those of us that love military type rifles. These are the rifles that the drones in the media would commonly label "assault weapons".

Today there are an amazing number of choices out there for AR and AK lovers alike. PTR has their HK knock-off rifles. DSA still cranks out a good number of FALs. The M1A is alive and well. Recently good fortune has smiled upon us and even the Galil is being revived thanks to new American made receivers and a recent shipment from Israel of a large number of parts kits.

Most of the revival can be credited to American ingenuity and investment capital in the production of new American made receivers and parts for many of these classic rifles. Sure some of the exotics are long gone like Beretta AR-70s, Sig AMTs, Valmets, etc., but by and large things are pretty good right now. The sunseting of the federal AW ban only made things even better.

I just want to take a moment to remind everyone that as good as things are we need to be vigilant in fighting for our rights, particularly given the changes the last election brought. As quickly as things turned around for us they can also go the other way. Please ask yourself what you are doing to support the cause. Are you supporting the NRA and your local state association? Are you writing letters?

We need to be proactive and remain vigilant. In some ways this almost feels like the mid '80s. Things were good and black rifles were to be found everywhere, including the gun shops in California where I grew up. Lets make sure this isn't the calm before the storm as it was nearly 20 years ago.

 

[Cosmoline]

Ditto on that last point. The more people who own these rifles, the harder it will be to take them away.

 

[BigG]

I would say, "yes." The current generation of milsurps will never be released to the public like the old bolt actions were. YMMV

 

[Mk VII]

You never know what the 'good old days' are until they've gone.

 

[Shear_stress]

My yard stick for the "good old days" is simple: can you stroll into a major sporting goods chain store, put three bills on the counter, and leave with a new hi-cap AK knock-off? By that standard, these are definately the good old days.

The only thing that would improve the situation is whether the above was possible in all fifty states. While we're dreaming, it would also be nice if our English friends could do the same for a bleedin' .22 revolver.

 

[Kaylee]

I would say, "yes." The current generation of milsurps will never be released to the public like the old bolt actions were. YMMV

Actually, they are... kind of.

My AR is except for its receiver and trigger group/bolt carrier entirely built from M16A1 bits that used to be in service use. The buttstock still has the remnants of a little taped ID number on it from sitting on a rack somewhere.

Same story on my AK - US reciever, semi fire control and US compliance parts.. but its at least mostly the same gun as some poor Polish grunt was humping around the Warsaw Pact some thirty years ago. (poor guy ... it really wasn't that much of a rifle even in its glory days by the looks of it).

It's not the best solution of course - I'd like to order a mid-60's beat-to-heck M16E1 from the ODCMP as much as you would -- but we can still get bits and pieces that have most of the "story" intact.

-K

 

[DMK]

Great way to look at it Kaylee! You could say the same about the FAL too.

 

[.45Guy]

My definition of good old days may be a bit different. My good old days would be the mid 90's, when Chi-com SKS's were stacked high. You could get a rifle and a case of ammo for $99 at the Lake County gun show. And the beautiful Swede Mauser I picked up for $110, or the Hakim for $225, or the MAS 49-56 for $275. Those were the "glory days," when every nation on earth was dumping surplus on us, and nobody knew what it was. Sadly we'll never see those days again.

 

[Jackal]

One of these days, within the next 10 years I expect, we will be looking back saying, "Remember when we could get a mint Mosin 91/30 shipped to our door plus a case of ammo for $130". Or how about "Remember when we could actually find K31's for under $500?" I just paid $200 for a Hakim thats missing the rear sight, handguard and handguard clips/bands. Now do I wish I would have grabbed a few when they were $250 in like new shape?:banghead:

 

[Essex County]

No Question in My mind.........

The good old days were the 50's and 60's. If you don't believe me dig out an old copy of the American Rifleman and check out the two page ads from Hunter's Lodge. I realize those were diffrent dollars then, but the selection was fantastic...........Essex

 

[Limeyfellow]

The 50s and 60s where you could pick up a Springfield 03 for $20. My full length swiss 1911 was bought originally in the 60s for all of $30 and Lee Enfields were a plenty. Today is nothing compared to what we had back then.

 

[Jerry Morris]

You should have seen the late 50's and the 60's. I walked into store with my Dad and saw numerous 55 gallon barrels stuffed with assorted milsurp rifles. A ten dollar bill would have taken the best of the lot.

Handguns were there, too. A choice 1911 was almost 20 bucks! Lugers and P38s were about the same. Berrettas and Mausers were dirt cheap. I can remember seeing Japanese knee mortars.

Jerry

 

[Davo]

Id like to think these are the good old days...and for those of us not in Kali, C&R handguns are bound to come on the market in the next several years. I still am thrilled that I can drive 10 minutes to Big 5 and bring home 5 milsurps for 500 bucks (k31's, Mausers, Mosins, Enfields).

 

[jagdpanzer347]

As far as non-C&R military rifles, these are good times indeed. You can buy or build representative examples of almost anything your heart desires. The only real negative I can think of offhand is the ban on import of parts kits with the original barrels.

 

[aka108]

I remember 98K's in the 1950's when no one wanted one. Gun shop had them in packed in wood barrels. 12 to 15 bucks. Lugers and P-38's were 25 to 30 bucks. All you wanted, all day long.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Some things have gone up more than others. Be sure to check a reliable Inflation Index before getting too misty:

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/


Although, a $30 Luger in 1950 dollars is $250 today; not likely to find that good a deal.

On the other hand, Oswald bought a Carcano for, what, $19? That's $117 in today's dollars, and I've seen plenty of Carcanos under $100.

-MV

 

[Prince Yamato]

Just wait until Cuba and North Korea's gov't falls. Makarovs and SKS by the TRUCKLOAD. Perhaps, the best is yet to come.

 

[Magnum88C]

I think we're coming to the end of the heyday of milsurps.

Like has been said before, they aren't going to surplus out this generation or the previous generation of rifles (Klinton destroyed most of our M14s -- there aren't even many parts left).

God surplus .303 ammo has dired up, even .308 surplus isn't anywhere near as available as it was just a few years ago. Who knows whent he 8mm will dry up.

Unfortunately, i think we're at the end of an era. If you can, snap up as many deals as possible, before we start drooling over $300 Mosin Nagants and $800 Mausers. Don't laugh, it'll happen.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

God surplus .303 ammo has dired up, even .308 surplus isn't anywhere near as available as it was just a few years ago. Who knows whent he 8mm will dry up.

Two of those are almost totally obsolete. One of those is in regular use by almost the entire world. If there's any shortage of affordable .308, it's because of people mucking with the free market.

Unfortunately, i think we're at the end of an era.

I'm not tremendously worried. So long as citizens aren't prevented from buying guns, they will.

So long as affordable guns aren't forbidden, folks will make them and other folks will buy them.


Look on the bright side: tons of surplus Nagants coming in only means profits for a few importers, and then the retailers. Without all these milsurps, those profits would go to American craftsmen.

As much as I don't like GHWB's Import Ban, it did provide a great opportunity for U.S.-based shops building military-type rifles. Where would Bushmaster/Sabre/RRA/ and dozens of others be if we were all getting $400 Norinco ARs?

-MV

 

[GeoW]

"Are these the "good old days" for military type rifles?"

Better than tomorrow but not as good as yesterday....

GeoW

 

[Koobuh]

"As much as I don't like GHWB's Import Ban, it did provide a great opportunity for U.S.-based shops building military-type rifles. Where would Bushmaster/Sabre/RRA/ and dozens of others be if we were all getting $400 Norinco ARs?"

Products put out by Norinco, and authentic, historically significant artifiacts, are so completely different in category that I simply can't believe you just conflated them.

"Without all these milsurps, those profits would go to American craftsmen."

Why on earth would -I- want to buy an off-the-shelf remchester deer slayer rifle? Those types of firearms hold absolutely no interest for me. Much less 'reproduction' firearms made in the US (presumably, to much lower standards than the original armory- even a russian one).

Yes, it's snobbery, but it's what floats my boat. Modern sporting arms and reproductions just don't do it for me; if it weren't for 'inexpensive' (gee, what a misnomer) milsurps, I wouldn't be a shooting enthusiast today.


-As far as reproductions of :modern: military arms goes, Arsenal seems to be doing pretty well with it's AK line, despite the proliferation of $300 WASR conversions. I'm sure Bushmaster et al would be doing fine in the face of competition from Norinco- in fact, they might be doing better. I probably would have picked up a Norinco at that price point ($400) by now, and subsequently would have been in a mood to buy something higher-quality.
There's no such thing as a zero-sum game when it comes to collectors; sporter types, maybe, but not collectors.

 

[Wes Janson]

Also remember that while we have Hakims and Mausers and Garands, we also have the PS-90, SIG 556, Steyr AUG, FN2000, and a whole bunch of other wild rifles that couldn't have even been built 30 or 40 years ago.

I have to wonder if 75-100 years from now, combat will have changed to such a point that small arms themselves become obsolete. And if, a century from now, historically-minded people in our spirit will look back and say "That would have been a good time to have been around."

 

[stiletto raggio]

I think Koobuh makes a good point aobut the market for guns in this country. I'll post on it seperately.

This is a good time for gun owners. CCW in a lot of states, a lot of variety in the market. However, it would be a lot better if the 86 ban were repealed.

 

[Oohrah]

Good old days...

Guess it's a matter of how long you have been a shooter.
Can't see where history has repeated itself in the same
way since the 50s. I still retain slightly altered and used,
but not abused 03A3, A-4 (Never fired), 30 Carbine, 45 Auto
were all under $20. During this time, if active duty, you could
buy an M-l Garand at $98 and a match $120 brand new. A
couple of decades back when DCM was running the show instead
of today's arms dealers, I was able to purchase an M-1 Garand
for $158, in VG to Excellent condition. Go figure, same rifle,
different day, they are 10 times this cost at a lesser grade.
Somehow, I would have to consider the good old days pretty
much gone!

 

[Wes Janson]

Yeah, but what about inflation?

$158 in 1960 would cost $1001 today.
$158 in 1970 would cost $796 today.

When the CMP still had Correct Grade (they've been gone for what, a year now?) they sold for $900-1200. And Service Grades (as of last month) were only $550. So really, has anything changed all that much? Talking small dollar figures makes things seem really attractive, until you realize what wages were like at the same time. $20 for a 1911 in 1950 is still pretty good (about $150 in today's dollars) but then again one can find new ones for only a bit more than twice that today.