Are you Pro Gun or Pro Gun Safety?

[NuShootr]

gun safety should be left out of the 2A debate all together.

I disagree. When we talk about alcohol, and in TV and radio ads for it, we always see or hear "drink responsibly". We also see "don't drink and drive". The onus is on 2nd Amendment advocates to assure that the message driven home is that owning a gun, in and of itself doesn't make you irresponsible, which is how our opponents make it seem. When you say "don't give them an inch" I agree with that, in that don't give them any reason to continue to point fingers at us. And the best way to do that is to be safe and responsible with our firearms and show them that it's not us being irresponsible. And statistics, in this case, are 100% on our side.

The biggest issue with the "gun debate" right now is it's basically slinging the same mud all the time. We've heard all the cliche arguments. We need to approach it differently. More intellectually, and less emotionally. The other side's argument is 100% emotional.

 

[BigBore44]

As stated by @FL-NC, I believe in the Constitution. All of it. I may not like your politics or beliefs. But I respect your right to have them. They are your right. What isn’t your right, is to take my rights and possessions away from me for something I haven’t done. That’s not how this country was supposed to work. That’s now how the constitution was written. But this country hasn’t been the country it was intended to be, for a very long time.

 

[Hartkopf]

If you want to make gun owners mad, tell them a lie.
If you want to make anti gunners mad, tell them the truth.

The facts might be on our side but minds that have already been twisted can't comprehend the facts. Don't let your kids and grandkids be a victim of the twisted mind disease.

 

[NuShootr]

As stated by @FL-NCBut this country hasn’t been the country it was intended to be, for a very long time.

Still the greatest nation on Earth. I'm an immigrant. Twice. There is no freer place on Earth than the USA. Even with all the BS.

 

[doubleh]

The ultimate goal of gun control is to have control of the population and the only safety concerns are for those in control. Don't believe me? Look at what has happened in every country that has done away with guns in the hands of it's citizens. The Constitution means nothing to those that would disarm us no matter what disguise they put on their intentions.

 

[NuShootr]

The ultimate goal of gun control is to have control of the population and the only safety concerns are for those in control. Don't believe me? Look at what has happened in every country that has done away with guns in the hands of it's citizens. The Constitution means nothing to those that would disarm us no matter what disguise they put on their intentions.

No other country has a 2nd Amendment. And the King tried to control The People for far too long which sparked the American Revolution. My only hope is that ALL Americans see what can happen and do everything in their power to prevent it. This power is given to us by our Constitution.

 

[theotherwaldo]

One trend that I've been following is that the gun-banners are dropping the word 'gun' from their arguments.
Instead, they are forming groups wrapped around the term 'Public Safety'.

Imagine.

A new Committee for Public Safety. Robespierre would be so proud... .

 

[wiscoaster]

The 2nd Amendment debate is currently being reframed.

Pro Gun Safety is a subversive term meant to trick people into choosing an anti 2nd amendment position. ....

What is the best way to change the conversation back.....

You're quite correct about reframing the terms of the debate. However, I think you're asking the wrong question. These people have no intention of having any kind of a conversation. They're not interested in listening to other viewpoints. They're only interested in promoting their own. If that's best done deceptively, then that's the method used. I think a better question to ask is: "what is the best way to expose their deceptions to people who are in the middle and haven't made up their minds yet?"

 

[bdickens]

One needs to ponder now with modern technology why there are more deaths caused by cell phones than there are by guns. Deaths caused by cell phone distracted driving have doubled and surpassed gun related deaths but cell phones and drivers licenses are given to anyone without doing a background check. Instead, the industry patches the distracted driving accidents and death by providing blue tooth technology in the car so that you can continue to drive and talk.

When it comes to gun safety there comes a time that as a human specie, common sense comes into play and if some one shoots themselves accidentally than so be it. Mother Nature has always played a role in weeding out the weak, dumb, and stupid.

I wonder what all the anti-gunners would think that as pro-gun owners we formed an organization similar to the NRA but instead focus on attacking the cell phone industry. We could demand that drivers using their cell phones while driving and are involved in an accident should get automatic suspension of their driving privileges for one year and if a death is involved automatic jail time for manslaughter . It is a fact now that distracted driving by cell phones causes more accidents than drunk driving. You think Beto O'rourke would promise to take our cell phones away?

I just lost my second car in 3 months to some B**** who turned left in front of me. On the damn phone. I hadn't even gotten the plates yet.

When I am installed as God Emperor and Supreme Benevolent Dictator of America, the punishment will be summary execution.

 

[BigBore44]

Still the greatest nation on Earth. I'm an immigrant. Twice. There is no freer place on Earth than the USA. Even with all the BS.

Not to be argumentative. Because I agree. But that point is honestly irrelevant. Just because it the greatest doesn’t make it great. Those are relative terms used to offset the negative aspects. If you go back to the Declaration of Independence and read the charges against the king, which was the reason for the Revolution, you will see that those most of those charges could absolutely be levied against the government or president today.

But this has to stay on firearms. Having the Constitution and Second Amendment are great. But if the government and courts decide to treat it like it’s just a piece of paper, and the people don’t rise up to defend their right. Then the Constitution is truly nothing more than a piece of paper. And the 2nd Amendment is nothing more than some ink scribbled on that paper. A piece of paper never saved anyone. What saved their life was the belief in, and the authority of those who believed in, that piece of paper.

Think about this for a minute. Depending on where you look, the largest military in the world is China at 2.18 million soldiers. There are approximately 80-85 million gun owners in America. Now, let’s say half of them are those who would never use their firearm. And we’ll use the low end of my original count. That takes us to 40 million. And say half of the remaining gun owners would never use their firearm in the defense of freedom. That leaves 20 million gun owners who would be willing to fight for our freedoms. Almost 10 times the size of the largest standing military in the world. Contrast that with the LGBTQ community. ~10 million total. Yet whose rights are being taken away and who continues to get more rights? My post isn’t an attack against LGBTQ. They don’t bother me. I bet we have members who are. They certainly aren’t all leftists and anti gun. It’s a point about the gun owners in America and their willingness to kowtow and give to those who only wish to take. 10 times the size of the largest military in the world. Let that sink in. And we can’t defend against the infringement of our right to keep the power GIVEN to us in our Constitution. If we lose our right, it’s our own damn fault.

 

[NuShootr]

I think a better question to ask is: "what is the best way to expose their deceptions to people who are in the middle and haven't made up their minds yet?"

Education. Calmly, and with conviction. You've hit the nail on the head.

Many people resort to "Shall not be infringed!!! What about that do you not understand????!!!!" And that's not how to affect change. The most common cliches about this discussion are well played out, tired and have no effect.

Even the most influential YouTubers fall into this trap. They favor sensationalism over thought provoking content to drive views that make them money. And many 2nd Amendment organizations aren't much better.

I brought this up in another thread where many Left leaning MSM outlets portray 2nd Amendment supporters as overweight rednecks, with limited education, chewing on a stick of hay, wearing flannel and speaking in a less than eloquent way. Meanwhile, the Anti-2nd Amendment people are well spoken, very well educated, well dressed and have of professionalism about them.

It starts at the grass roots. Us. Use your education on firearms and 2nd Amendment as a tool for good. Keep calm, and talk to anyone about it. Even if they disagree with you. There are ways to have discussions that garner respect for both sides. That's really what's missing.

 

[BigBore44]

I just lost my second car in 3 months to some B**** who turned left in front of me. On the damn phone. I hadn't even gotten the plates yet.

When I am installed as God Emperor and Supreme Benevolent Dictator of America, the punishment will be summary execution.

You should really keep better track of your cars. I think there’s an app for that. Just don’t use it while driving.

 

[bdickens]

If you go back to the Declaration of Independence and read the charges against the king, which was the reason for the Revolution, you will see that those most of those charges could absolutely be levied against the government or president today....

In 1775, bullets started flying over less than what our government is doing to us today.

 

[NuShootr]

Just because it the greatest doesn’t make it great.

Disagree. It is great. It can be better. No question. But that's up to US. We need to take the responsibility for it. And most just don't. They've become too complacent and comfortable with their freedoms. Our freedoms is someone else's problem to them. That's what's going on in the USA right now. The 2nd Amendment is a punchline for many Americans at this point. As is the Constitution. I could tell you the long story of where my family comes from, but that won't change anything for the people not on this forum.

 

[FFGColorado]

Most of which are gun related suicides. If memory serves.

And THAT'S how I would approach this argument. Frame it this way. "If gun safety can prevent the majority of gun related suicide, which tends to be the majority of gun related deaths annually, then I am 100% for teaching more about gun safety. I'm also for a much better mental health system, which was basically shut down in 80s because of corruption within the system. How are you dealing with the lack of mental health care funding and resources?"

Correct but certainly distracted driver caused deaths were not higher.

 

[GEM]

Time to shut it down, too many wandering into left/right, sexuality, etc. and off topic.

The point is taken about the use of gun safety as a euphemism for gun control.