Hello i inherited this from my dad . he had a box of ammo . I did some research and found info about case swelling being considered normal ???? My brother shot 2 rounds with case swelling and bolt was binding on extraction on third round it split case upon measuring chamber there was significant taper . I didnt write measurements down but with a round in chamber it is loose enough you can wiggle round . My question is there a round that it can be rechambered to that is modern and easily accessible .thanks
Arisaka type 38 6.5 jap
- Thread starter Bubba0182
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gotboostvr
Member
It could be set back one or two full turns and the barrel could probably be recut with a reamer closer to spec.
If you can't find a correct reamer for that cartridge, 6.5-06, 6.5 Creedmoor, 260Rem all might work.
WestKentucky
Member
The issue is not the barrel, the issue is the bolt. The casehead on 6.5 jap is a very odd size. It’s close to a bunch of stuff but it’s not the same as anything else. Working a bolt face is where the expense really comes into play. With a rechamber you can very easily get into more expense than the gun is worth.
Steel Horse Rider
Member
Arasaka chambers were cut big so they would work when dirty. I have 5 of the 6.5 flavor and they are all hard on the brass. If the brass split open I would be concerned about the age of the ammo. I was given some old Jap 7.7 ammo and had 2 of the first three rounds split the case so I disposed f the rest. I pulled a couple of the bullets and the powder had a very sour odor. Maybe try some new ammunition before giving up on the rifle as is.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
Yup, first suspect is expired ammo. Smokeless gunpowder breaks down over time, becoming unstable and leading to unpredictable burn rates and pressures.
I would safely dispose of any surplus WW2 Japanese ammo without a second thought. If its old commercial ammo, and the brass is clean, pull a few bullets to check for corrosion, a foul smell, caked up powder, or green/yellow gas inside. If any of these conditions is present dispose of this as well.
My Dad has a whole bucket of '40s era 6.5 Jap in his basement. I keep telling him to get rid of it........
I would safely dispose of any surplus WW2 Japanese ammo without a second thought. If its old commercial ammo, and the brass is clean, pull a few bullets to check for corrosion, a foul smell, caked up powder, or green/yellow gas inside. If any of these conditions is present dispose of this as well.
My Dad has a whole bucket of '40s era 6.5 Jap in his basement. I keep telling him to get rid of it........
Dave DeLaurant
Member
Any chance of a photo of swollen fired brass?
There can be moderate swelling from deliberately oversized chambers (LE Mk 4s for example), and then there's the kind of swelling you can get from more severe headspace issues.
The degree of the problem depends on where the swelling occurs and how much. If the case web isn't fully supported, you can get separation where the solid case web thins -- that's not good!
Assuming there is adequate chamber support and that the brass case is new rather than old and work-hardened, it will swell enough on the first firing to fit the chamber. Then you neck resize and download future loadings of the case. If you have two or more rifles of the same chambering, you'll need to segregate brass to specific rifles and of course handloading will be necessary.
A photo of the rifle would be helpful -- if it has been sporterized, I think you should do a chamber cast and see whether it has areadly been altered.
A question for Arisaka fans: as with German Mausers, did the GI bringbacks sometimes end up with mismatched bolts? And did the Japanese routinely number their bolts to match?
There can be moderate swelling from deliberately oversized chambers (LE Mk 4s for example), and then there's the kind of swelling you can get from more severe headspace issues.
The degree of the problem depends on where the swelling occurs and how much. If the case web isn't fully supported, you can get separation where the solid case web thins -- that's not good!
Assuming there is adequate chamber support and that the brass case is new rather than old and work-hardened, it will swell enough on the first firing to fit the chamber. Then you neck resize and download future loadings of the case. If you have two or more rifles of the same chambering, you'll need to segregate brass to specific rifles and of course handloading will be necessary.
A photo of the rifle would be helpful -- if it has been sporterized, I think you should do a chamber cast and see whether it has areadly been altered.
A question for Arisaka fans: as with German Mausers, did the GI bringbacks sometimes end up with mismatched bolts? And did the Japanese routinely number their bolts to match?
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caribou
Member
The Japanese had 2 number sets they went by, the serial, and an assembly number, so often what looks mismatched, isnt.
After the surrender, alot of Japanese rifles ended up in roadside piles with the bolt thrown in a different pile. After the war, as well, they had the Chrysanthemum ground off, showing the rifle was decommissioned and the old Imperial crest removed. Gi's looted these piles for souvenirs much like Mausers in Europe. Unlike Europe, the rifle didnt have to fit in a duffel bag to get home, they just had to box them, so no "Duffel cut" stocks much, either.
Rifles with a "mum" were either captured before the wars end or were taken home from one of hundreds of Islands the US took from the Japanese during the war.
After the surrender, alot of Japanese rifles ended up in roadside piles with the bolt thrown in a different pile. After the war, as well, they had the Chrysanthemum ground off, showing the rifle was decommissioned and the old Imperial crest removed. Gi's looted these piles for souvenirs much like Mausers in Europe. Unlike Europe, the rifle didnt have to fit in a duffel bag to get home, they just had to box them, so no "Duffel cut" stocks much, either.
Rifles with a "mum" were either captured before the wars end or were taken home from one of hundreds of Islands the US took from the Japanese during the war.
My 2 6.5 jap rifles are HARD on brass. The carbine less so.
You'll be lucky to get 3 resizings before failure. They were built to work in almost any circumstance. Just neck size and you'll get farther.
The chambers were cut with more than a bit of slop to keep her working dirty, dusty, frozen, muddy etc.
And thats just the ammunition.
You'll be lucky to get 3 resizings before failure. They were built to work in almost any circumstance. Just neck size and you'll get farther.
The chambers were cut with more than a bit of slop to keep her working dirty, dusty, frozen, muddy etc.
And thats just the ammunition.
rdnktrkr
Member
I have 2, one has a looser chamber and it shows when I resize the brass, they both shoot the 140gr bullets better than anything else I've tried, I've seen the ammo go up considerably so I reload for them now, I get about 5 reloads on my brass sometimes more, the last factory ammo I shot was in a box of 50 that I paid $10 for but I don't remember when. On mine the necks give out first.
Jeremy2171
Member
First off... NEVER dispose of old WW2 jap ammo.... unless you send it to me.
It's collectable...period.
Unfortunately commercial brass is undersized and to get good results you will want to make your brass like I do.
243/260 brass is a great start and it eliminates the bulge in the brass
It's collectable...period.
Unfortunately commercial brass is undersized and to get good results you will want to make your brass like I do.
243/260 brass is a great start and it eliminates the bulge in the brass
DocRock
member
I'm not sure I understand the issue. Is it a large chamber promoting case body expansion, or a head space issue, causing stretching?
It sounds like the former. If so, it's a reloading proposition and the cases only want neck sizing after fire forming.
It sounds like the former. If so, it's a reloading proposition and the cases only want neck sizing after fire forming.
theotherwaldo
Member
Are you sure that that isn't a school gun?
Are there any markings on the side of the buttstock?
Are there any markings on the side of the buttstock?
Dave DeLaurant
Member
For the OP's benefit, re Japanese 'school rifles':
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=122219
With the brass swelling so much near the base, I personally would limit shooting to extremely light lead bullet handloads using new brass and neck resizing. May I suggest that this rifle is perhaps best kept as an unaltered piece of history and family memento rather than a shooter?
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=122219
With the brass swelling so much near the base, I personally would limit shooting to extremely light lead bullet handloads using new brass and neck resizing. May I suggest that this rifle is perhaps best kept as an unaltered piece of history and family memento rather than a shooter?
Steel Horse Rider
Member
Some were made for "trainers" and did not have the Mum either. Only the rifles "belonging" to the Emperor were stamped. Also when rifles that were military issue were turned over to guards or for training they stamped three small circles over the center of the Mum. I have one Type 38 carbine with that particular marking and it also has a fixed aperture type rear sight.
caribou
Member
A very worn chamber might be why it was decommissioned/scrubbed. Any words painted on the buttstoock?
After the war a lot of T-99 rifles in 7.7 Jap had the 58mm chamber deepened to 63 mm and set to shoot the 30-06. The South Koreans converted thousands of T-00;s to this and a few were done state side. They also have been well known for base of cartridge cracks and blowouts.
The action of the Japanese T-38 was tested extensively and found to be stronger than any American,. Ruissian, french, British, German or whoever. I think it was Julius Hatcher that did the testing.
The T-38 has a lot of room and venting for base of case blow outs, fortunately
After the war a lot of T-99 rifles in 7.7 Jap had the 58mm chamber deepened to 63 mm and set to shoot the 30-06. The South Koreans converted thousands of T-00;s to this and a few were done state side. They also have been well known for base of cartridge cracks and blowouts.
The action of the Japanese T-38 was tested extensively and found to be stronger than any American,. Ruissian, french, British, German or whoever. I think it was Julius Hatcher that did the testing.
The T-38 has a lot of room and venting for base of case blow outs, fortunately
JT-AR-MG42
Member
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Bubba,
Your photos show what appears to be a Type 38, as opposed to a trainer, although I am not ruling out a trainer.
Japanese Type 38 trainers (as opposed to 'school rifles') were made in quite a few variations,
which included styles with a blank top receiver and gas relief holes.
I would strongly recommend not firing the rifle again until a clear determination is made.
Clear and focused photos of the buttstock, receiver top, and one of the left side receiver markings (put a piece of masking tape
over the last two digits of the serial number if you feel the need) should help for identification.
All trainers I've looked had four digit serial numbers if there WAS a serial number.
I have never seen or heard of a T-38 with the model markings (the '38 Type' characters) removed (by either the Japanese or Occupation forces),
so I'm looking forward to a few more photos to help clear this up for you.
JT
Your photos show what appears to be a Type 38, as opposed to a trainer, although I am not ruling out a trainer.
Japanese Type 38 trainers (as opposed to 'school rifles') were made in quite a few variations,
which included styles with a blank top receiver and gas relief holes.
I would strongly recommend not firing the rifle again until a clear determination is made.
Clear and focused photos of the buttstock, receiver top, and one of the left side receiver markings (put a piece of masking tape
over the last two digits of the serial number if you feel the need) should help for identification.
All trainers I've looked had four digit serial numbers if there WAS a serial number.
I have never seen or heard of a T-38 with the model markings (the '38 Type' characters) removed (by either the Japanese or Occupation forces),
so I'm looking forward to a few more photos to help clear this up for you.
JT
hobbeeman
Member
What process do you use to turn .243 into 6.5 Jap? If you have already posted it, let me know and I’ll look it up. Thanks!
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