Arming Teachers in the Classroom Debate Heats Up

[gunsmith]

http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=5817824

Thursday's pellet gun incident was the second time in three days a weapon was found on the campus of a Clark County public school, fueling the debate over a state lawmaker's controversial proposal.

State Senator Bob Beers believes the answer to situations like that one is to arm educators with guns. It is an idea, he says, that would keep schools safer.

Post your opinion on Senator Beers' proposal.

People have strong feelings about this proposal and those the I-Team talked with several say they are against the idea.

It can be the controlled chaos of a middle school lunch line or the controlled chaos of a chorus class. But even if students are out of control, chorus instruction Karen Miskell doesn't think a teacher with a gun would cool rising temperatures.

"At this school, students don't seem to fear a whole lot. It would give them more fuel to their fire, as far as being angry and hostile," Miskell said.

Just a few weeks ago, students at Bob Bailey Middle School attacked a gun-toting police officer. He was seriously injured when one student hurled a rock at his face.

Prinicipal Karen Paquette says adding guns to her school would only create more of a risk of violence. "I have 70 teachers. If thirty of them had permits and carried, that's 30 guns I'd have to worry about."

At Spring Valley High School, it was just one gun that educators and parents were worrying about. But even so, parents there don't like the idea of teachers carrying guns.

Some of the comments from Spring Vallley High School after Thursday's incident where:

"The situation may not be that bad in order to pull out a gun and shoot somebody. I feel that is a situation that may occur."

"I think it's a terrible idea. There could be any number of situations where an unstable student who could get access to that gun."

"What would it take for someone to grab a gun off a teacher or a teacher to be mad at a student."

Back at Bailey Middle School, in the chorus of opposition, there is at least one voice in support of teachers with gun.

Sixth grader Summer Acevedo thinks teachers with guns would stop students from starting a fight or worse. "They should have guns if they have proper training, if they don't use them freely and only for their protection," she said.

Keep in mind this proposal is just that -- a proposal. Nevada Senator Bob Beers would have to win the support of several lawmakers and the public before his idea could move forward.

The issue was not on the school board's agenda for Thursday night's meeting.

Post your opinion on Senator Beers' proposal.

 

[hmp32]

Teachers sure. They have the right to defend themselves.

Besides, if community watch programs reduce community crime, doesn't it followed than an armed citizenry reduces personal crime?

Data from the Justice Department and other sources where CCWs are allowed say yes, it does.

 

[Prince Yamato]

"What would it take for someone to grab a gun off a teacher or a teacher to be mad at a student."

As a teacher, let me answer that question.

1) If the gun is concealed, the student doesn't know I have it on me.
2a) I get mad a students all the time.
2b) I assume that the parent meant for the teacher to be so mad that they shoot the student. Newsflash: if you are at all capable of shooting a child out of anger, you shouldn't be an educator, you should be a prison inmate.

 

[Cousin Mike]

I think it should be optional - definitely not mandatory. But I think any teacher who has, or is willing to get a CHL, should be able to go to work armed if they choose. I just wonder if they might face any discrimination for doing so.

 

[miconoakisland]

Teacher carry

I think any teacher with a CHP (or whatever that state has) should be sufficient.
No faculty member should feel the need to be informed if another faculty member is armed or not, including the principal.
To carry a firearm is a personal decision to protect oneself.
Principals aren't requiring faculty to reveal what kind, if any, birth control they are using, do they? Even when there are far more teachers sleeping with students than murdering them!
If teachers are allowed to carry concealed (and I mean really concealed!) upon their person and are required to say "no comment" when asked (whether or not they are carrying), then I see no problem with it.

If the Columbine killers knew "some" teachers "may" carry, then I doubt the incident would've occurred.
If they knew which teachers carried, then they either would've avoided those classrooms, or sought them out for "suicide by teacher".

The state of American classrooms: with trailers, non-english speaking illegals, political correctness, victimization, fear of firearms, zero tolerance, frivolous lawsuits, drugs, sex, state/federal testing flaws, indoctrination, violence, etc., etc., ad nauseum! It's a wonder teachers even exist or students even learn to read!!

Teachers are fed up, parents are fed up, administration's hands are tied. Everyone blames the other and nothing is accomplished!

I raised a girl from 1st grade to 9th. She was not mine, nor was I her mom's boyfriend. She lived in my house (along with her mom and her mom's boyfriends---lo-ong story). The girl was smart, good, attractive, and social.
She told me stories about sex and drugs and alcohol when she was 13 and 14 that would curl my hair!

She's in college now, and we've kept in close contact throughout the years, despite her mother. She's doing well, but I'd hate to think how she would've turned out without my input and guidance! Her mom and boyfriend of the month were always out at bars starting at 5pm, so I helped her with homework, and talked with her a lot. I was basically her father. Her real dad lived far away and is a good guy. We get along well and even he has thanked me for being there for her.

Children are a blessing, but I'm blessed by not having any of my own! I'd go nuts dealing with the school system and what they are teaching!

 

[razorburn]

If the Columbine killers knew "some" teachers "may" carry, then I doubt the incident would've occurred.
If they knew which teachers carried, then they either would've avoided those classrooms, or sought them out for "suicide by teacher".

Are you sure? Nationwide, CCW'ers are a very small percentage of the population. Maybe 1 or two teachers at a typical school would be a CCW'er. They'd have small handguns that could be concealed. The shooters had long arms, home made bombs, and suicidal intent. They had far more firepower and no fear of death. I don't think a couple teachers with handguns would be able to do much. Also think about other rampage shootings, like the mall shootings. At the one near here, tacoma mall, CCW was allowed and there were ccw'er there, but carriers had no effect. Again, outgunned and undermanned. Not that I expect it to. CCW is for personal protection, and of course it's justified that they will want to take care of their family first and just get them out of there. It might not be a popular opinion, but I don't think allowing CCW will make much difference with this sort of thing. I think the people who want CCW in schools just want them for their personal feelings of security and shouldn't feel the need to put up any other justification for that behind any sort of pretense that this will have a significant difference in school safety.

 

[Erebus]

"What would it take for someone to grab a gun off a teacher or a teacher to be mad at a student."

Some great teachers you have if you think that if one gets mad they will blow away a student. If I thought that if one of my child's teachers was capable of shooting my child just for making them mad I would pull my child out of that school in a heartbeat. That is one unstable teacher.

 

[bigun15]

Sixth grader Summer Acevedo thinks teachers with guns would stop students from starting a fight or worse. "They should have guns if they have proper training, if they don't use them freely and only for their protection," she said.

Even the sixth grader got it. Good job Summer. It's good to know that the kids are being educated by more than just the school.

 

[miconoakisland]

May be right

Razorburn,
you may be right that only one or two teachers may have carried if it had been possible.
Yes, CCW is for personal protection.
Yes, anyone in Columbine was out-gunned.
But, just as it took two to kill a bunch of kids, it only takes one to end it before it gets that bad.
I feel I am right to use this deplorable instance to assert my feelings for CCW on school campuses as much as those that assert this same instance to institute a blanket, feel-good, non-solution, counter-productive policy that endangers all within a public school building.

People are going to "snap". Just seems they tend to do it in places where they know firearms/CCW isn't allowed.
Show me someone snapping at a firing range, a police station, a full-auto day at the range. They "snap" at post offices, schools, Chicago offices, restaurants, night clubs, and bars.

Pyschos that want to "take as many with me as possible" do so in places they know the people are disarmed.

 

[SamTuckerMTNMAN]

my post at the website

"Guns do not just "go off". Trained and selected teachers do not use violence to resolve confrontation. Gun free school zones are ripe picking for any violent individual. Not only would arming select teachers deter acts of evil and insanity, it would encourage a positive message about weapons; that they are, in fact, tools of justice in the hands of compassionate individuals. Allowing only police to carry weapons not only establishes a false authoritarian relationship with tomorrow's generation, it makes students relate to weapons as simple tools for power and control - not freedom and security.
One day the nannies may look back and wonder, "How did they ever drive without GPS?" "How did they survive without rubber scissors?" "Can you believe they rode on motorcycles?" and the answer will be the same then as it is now; we are a free people, freedom necessitates responsibility, responsibility is taught by example, and the quiet strength of leadership is earned through the trials of life. Fearing sidearms is fearing freedom, responsibility, and spiritual maturity.

Posted by: Sam Tucker at Dec 22, 2006 11:04:22 PM "


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[GEM]

Sigh - we, the great, supertrained, internet commandos want teachers to pass vigourous tests and training to be able to defend themselves. However, we ,the internet brigade of death, feel competent to strap on our gun and go to the mall.

What if the teacher goes nuts - unlike the internet commando?

The simplest solution is to allow CCW in schools if a teacher has a permit. No one has to be announced as the official armed teacher.

The logic that suggests the internet commando may be efficacious against a nut in the mall, certainly suggests a teacher (probably on average smarter than the internet commando and more dedicated to kids) who takes the time get a CCW permit will be efficacioius.

 

[Green Lantern]

I find it amusing that the anti-gun "educators" seem to have the worst grasp of grammar: "...cart before the horse hear" ect...

EDIT - no new comments in 2 days. I submitted something, so I figure they've either a) gotten a few days off for Christmas in the blog dept, or b) tossed it...

 

[xd9fan]

Cant we just have the citizens of america... have this.

Whats with the select group thing?? (teacher,pilot)

What makes one think the select group with be better at protection than the population at large?

I dont get it.....

 

[gunsmith]

there you go making sense xd9fan

we need something like a 2nd Amendment, something that
says every adult can keep and bear arms....

 

[Henry Bowman]

Pyschos that want to "take as many with me as possible" do so in places they know the people are disarmed.

Yes. Not sure which is cause and effect. It may be that misguided rulemakers (legislators, etc.) ignorantly (hopefully) or maliciously (hopefully not) simply choose to disarm the populace in the places that defense is most likely to be needed.

 

[spartan55]

Somthing has to be done

Whether teachers ever will be allowed or not to carry, who knows, as for now our schools are targets,targets because nobody is thier with the appropriate means as an immediate deterrent to protect our most valuable resource. We need to arm a teacher, or principal, even hire armed security, post a law enforcement officer to patrol the grounds during school hours............SOMTHING HAS TO BE DONE

 

[Green Lantern]

^^^ Something I think that EVERYone can agree on, yes. We as a whole may not agree on WHAT to do - but when kids are getting shot in school, I don't think anyone would say that the "status quo" is NOT working.

As for JUST saying teachers should be armed at school. Well, of course I'd like to see ANYone who can lawfully carry a gun elsewhere be able to do so at school.

But I think "baby steps" may be the way to go here. Remember, the antis are hitting the roof as it is by saying that teachers - the ones who are IN school every day that our kids are, the ones that look out for our kids while they're at school and also the ones that are as likely to get shot by a gunman as our kids if he attacks a school - should be able to use guns to defend ourselves.

Can you imagine the noise they would make at the notion of ANY law-abiding adult being able to carry a gun for self-defense while on school grounds? "DEAR LORD, you savage fools! Think of the CHILDREEEEEN!!!!"

 

[Can'thavenuthingood]

If teachers get to CCW in school, the program will be minimized by the bureaucracy like they did with the pilots.

Teachers will have to go to special training for a period not to exceed 5 days on Guam or Wake Island. The teacher will have to pay for this themselves as well as taking unpaid time off to secure this training. Then must go back annually for refresher training so no children will mistakenly be shot.

And bring a bag lunch.

The discussion ought to be steered towards CCW for all rather than another select group approved by the government.

Did the police officers get national CCW?

Vick

 

[chris in va]

No offense, but many teachers I've experienced shouldn't be anywhere near firearms, much less carry one in a school.

Half of them in the public school system can't even properly educate our kids. Quite a few are raging liberals bent on instilling their 'progressive' ideology into the new crop of fresh minds. I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable knowing that these people are armed.

Schools need to be protected better, no question. But there's got to be a better way.

 

[Car Knocker]

Whether teachers ever will be allowed or not to carry, who knows,

Perfectly legal for teachers, school employees and the general public to carry in schools with CCW in some states.

 

[Geronimo45]

Teachers are people, too. Let 'em take their states' CCW course. If they pass, they get a license and are allowed to carry at the school.

Treat them like they're normal folk with licenses. I could, say, be teaching a day care facility. I'm pretty sure I could CC there. If I decided to shoot Curious George, the 6-year-old would-be Gangsta, 'cause I'm mad at him, I'll probably get the death penalty. If a teacher does it, the same should happen. Same thing if a cop gets mad at his kids and kills 'em.


P.S. Pretty sure the national LEO CCW did pass.

 

[Soybomb]

Hopefully one day people will realize that saying "gun free zone" does not make it one and will just drop the restrictions on their states concealed carry laws. A school isn't a special place, its just another place. If you can carry in your state you should be able to carry there.

 

[GEM]

If a teacher gets a permit in the area where Chris in VA lives and is not allowed to carry at school - I see no reason why Chris in VA should be allowed to carry a gun in the mall. Why should I trust him?

Oh, because he is a social conservative? That's baloney.

Folks who think that a teacher who can get a permit should not carry in school are basically tools of the Brady bunch as every argument they make can be applied to the CCW type in the mall or church. They are basically just spouting some political crappola or acting out because they got bad grades.

 

[Erebus]

Schools need to be protected better, no question. But there's got to be a better way.

This is the exact same argument that we get from the antis. So what is it? Don't forget in most school systems there is $ZERO avaliable for whatever your proposal is. Letting teachers get an LTC and buy their own firearm costs the school system nothing.

Everytime I hear the "There's got to be another way" statement I ask what the "another way" that costs nothing is. No one ever has an answer.

The other thing I would like to point out is that money doesn't solve problems. Good plans, competently and skillfully executed solve problems. For an example of tons of money solving nothing do to a lousy plan.... Iraq today. We know that the competence and skill is there in our military, the plan stinks.

 

[sefus]

"An armed society is a polite society"

Working in education (higher ed) I have put my time in at high schools and colleges and can tell you this is not an easy topic with a yes or no answer. The first thing I would ask is why (in the last ten years) is this suddenly a problem. To my memory, school shootings are a newer thing and my question/answer is 'why?’ What is creating this new trend? I don’t believe in sandbagging your town when the dam is leaking; I say fix the dam. No tthe best analogy but you get the point.

Arming teachers, or should I say teachers being armed, is OK in my book, given that they pass all checks for legal concealed carry as all other citizens have to. I imagine that for any district to sign off on the idea though, a teacher would also have to attend X amount of classes on concealed carry, weapon retention... and provide documentation on this. I actually don’t mind that idea too much as they are working with populations that have a numerical advantage and if a bunch of punks decided to jump a teacher, said teacher is going to need to have the skills and knowledge to retain and use their weapon; same idea as prison guards in my mind. I definitely agree that baby steps are appropriate in this matter. An armed guard patrolling the grounds is OK to some, will make others nervous of creating an environment of fear (I hate fearful people btw), and some will say that all it is a target to stay away from or take out first in a Columbine situation. I also imagine the Internet commandos will advocate teachers carrying for the event of terrorist takeover and the like but seriously I doubt that being a prevalent problem. Times are changing though, so I could be wrong.

-Sefus