Army suicide training...not anti gun all the way

[Eric F]

So being the civilian army employee that I am I had to go through the anti suicide training ment for the soldigers .........more useless mandatory training.

Some where during my nap I heard a general say

men have more access to firearms than women and therefore complete suicide more often then women

huh since when do women have more or better access than men?

The rest of the class really didnt leave me with an antigun feeling just the one comment didnt make sense to me.

 

[ArmedBear]

Women sometimes swallow a bunch of pills as a desperate, psychologically sick, "cry for help."

Men are more likely to shoot themselves because, for a related set of dysfunctional psychological reasons, they don't want that help.

You can pump a stomach out. You can't rebuild a brain.

I'm not sure that "access" has much to do with it: these tend to be choices that people make (not entirely consciously, of course).

 

[Eric F]

agreed men have a much less atempt ate but a higher success rate than women who have a much higher attempt rate but access I would think women ase as accesable as men.

 

[ArmedBear]

Agreed.

Anyone who really wants to kill themselves in a very effective manner can do so. There are many ways.

That's what I mean: I think it's about choices and context, not the availability of tools.

 

[Titan6]

What they likely meant to say is that men own firearms at a higher rate and are more likely to work in profession that employs firearms than women.

Do they still do the post-deployment part where you should not "feel the need" to go armed everywhere?

 

[Titan6]

That's what I mean: I think it's about choices and context, not the availability of tools.

More like the decision of which tools to use. Men are much more likely to use a gun and therefore more "successful".

 

[ArmedBear]

That was what I was trying to say.

 

[divemedic]

Actually, women are less likely to choose a method which will disfigure them. They are vain that way. Women tend to use pills, poisons, and wrist cutting. Men use tools, guns, knives, tall buildings, vehicles. Men tend to be more successful, because their ways are more - destructive.

We are just wired differently.

 

[Titan6]

I guess the military is desperate to APPEAR that it is doing something about the rampant suicides caused by massive stress from unending missions.

I know what you mean it is so rampant it is almost up to the level of the civilian population. Job satisfaction has it dropped from #3 of all professions to something like #8.

 

[Titan6]

Hmm.. twisting...

Suicide Rate
United States 17.7 4.5 11.0 2005
US Military 17.1 5.1 10.9 2008

Yeah twisting.....

 

[zminer]

What they likely meant to say is that men own firearms at a higher rate and are more likely to work in profession that employs firearms than women

This is exactly correct, and when combined with this:

Women tend to use pills, poisons, and wrist cutting. Men use tools, guns, knives, tall buildings, vehicles. Men tend to be more successful, because their ways are more - destructive

It leads to men actually "successfully" taking their own lives at a greater rate than women do. The instructor probably just worded it in a way that was easy to misunderstand.

Anyone who really wants to kill themselves in a very effective manner can do so. There are many ways.

True - anyone can drive to a major city, find a skyscraper, and jump off of it. You will almost definitely die from that. But the point - which many have already made - is that suicide is an act the purpose of which is not always to end one's life. Many people don't really want to end their lives - they just want to end their psychological pain, or avoid consequences of their decisions, or whatnot. And because the source of suicide is different for each person, the methods people choose are also different. Some people worry about what their corpse will look like, so they do something that will maintain their appearance. Others don't want to feel pain, so they choose a "painless" method. Etc.

The baseline point, though, is that all suicide attempts - and hints of suicidal thoughts - should be taken seriously. Anyone who is contemplating it should be encouraged to call 1-800-SUICIDE, talk to a counselor, or send an anonymous e-mail to The Samaritans. A teacher of mine committed suicide, and he was ex-military. I sure as hell wish he had called someone before he decided to do it.

 

[Titan6]

Yes titan, you're twisting it by focusing solely on ONE aspect of the statistics.

Okay let us look at another aspect: decline. From '07 to '08 the rate declined more than 10%. Actually even lower than the '06 rate. I am not sure if a three year low is actually a "spike" brought about by "unending missions" but if you say so. This is with increased deployment rates, increased tour lengths brought about the "surge".

According to your logic the rate should be going up not down. Even so we are just discussing the Army rate, not the Marine and other service rates which are much lower. In fact the Marine rate is more than 30% below the civilian rate and hasn't changed much since the war started. Odd since they get deployed at higher rate don't you think?

I hate talking about this subject but despise dishonesty even more. Perpetuating myths and untruths is the realm of antis not our side.

 

[Titan6]

I've read a steady stream of news stories, from many different news sources, detailing the increase in baby killing murders. It's been regular, and I've read these news accounts for at least a year. This is where I expect you to tell me that whatever is in the news is not to be believed, but that I should believe one guy with a few statistics that seem very narrow. The overall thrust of what you are saying is that there is no problem. That there is no real increase of any consequence. Forgive me, but I've grown suspicious of people who essentially say "all is well," and who seem to want to do it for "freedom" reasons. Anytime a person tries to point out a problem to these types, that person gets accused of saying "taking away my guns."

I've also grown suspicious of people who refuse to believe that there is anything wrong with the gun problem. These people also tend to wrap their denial in the flag of "civil rights."

We're just going to have to agree to disagree because I've read too much for too long (including statistics) in the news about the very real problem and very real INCREASE in baby killing murders.

See the problem here is you have not posted a single statistic or any evidence that refutes what I am saying. I know you are new here but "what I read" and accusing me of being a demagogue (again without foundation) does not fly here; truth and evidence does.

Besides, I never said there wasn't a problem either. There is a problem and it is be being addressed with some moderate progress. What I am saying is that you are misrepresenting the problem and do not understand the issues. This is much more distinct than trying to present a complete falsehood. So get your facts straight before you post and you won't look foolish by not knowing what you are posting about.