Army Thin-Skinned Over Homemade Armor

[444]

"...the only reason that the crews survived were that they had the ballistic windows rolled down..."

Right, I forgot about that. They specifically mentioned it was because they had the windows rolled down.

 

[Jeff White]

Let's not confuse our HMMWV models...

The HMMWVs in Somalia weren't the same uparmored HMMWVs that they are buying now. They were the standard weapons carrier model. Bullet resistant glass and a kevlar liner in the unibody. They were designed to provide limited survivabilty against shell fragments. they were never designed to provide protection against small arms fire or any type of anti-armor weapon.

The bullet resistant glass in the HMMWVs is easliy penetrated by 7.62x51. M193 and M855 usually don't penetrate completely. I have never shot any of the glass with 7.62x39 (I don't have a weapon that fires it))

The current uparmored HMMWVs were born out of the AARs for that conflict. The windows don't roll down on these and they have to be airconditioned. This adds an additional load to the engine along with the extra weight.

Sandbags on the floor are some protection against mines and IEDs and that technique has been used for years.

Jeff

 

[Jeeper]

I dont doubt that the military is working on it but I dont think that helps the people being killed daily. Who knows how great the military solution will be. I mean the military did give us that phenominal waste of money called the Bradley.

This is a tough call. I agree that crappy fabrication will be a placebo and possibly dangerous. I also see that it has been done in many wars and often lead to new innovative ideas. Tough one.

 

[dadman]

Spark wrote:

In some ways speed = armor because a small, fast target is harder to hit than a slow lumbering one. But convoy's by their nature are slow and lumbering... you see the dilemma.

The slow and lumbering convoy also comes to a standstill(I think) when one or more vehicles gets hit. I suppose the convoy does a 'circle the wagons' to aid the one(s) hit.
Thin or thick skin, they're sitting for a few minutes.

 

[Jeff White]

dadman said;

The slow and lumbering convoy also comes to a standstill(I think) when one or more vehicles gets hit. I suppose the convoy does a 'circle the wagons' to aid the one(s) hit.
Thin or thick skin, they're sitting for a few minutes.

Not if they are following doctrine they don't. Procedure for an unblocked ambush is to continue moving out of the kill zone. The only reason the convoy should stop is if it's a blocked ambush and they can't continue to move out of the kill zone, in which case they herringbone off the road, dismount and attack the roadblock.

Jeff

 

[dadman]

Jeff White said:

Not if they are following doctrine they don't. Procedure for an unblocked ambush is to continue moving out of the kill zone. The only reason the convoy should stop is if it's a blocked ambush and they can't continue to move out of the kill zone, in which case they herringbone off the road, dismount and attack the roadblock.

Narrow street or wide avenue, if one or more vehicles is disabled, not moveable, and with WIA and KIA, do any or all stop at all or do they beat feat quickly out of the kill zone and assist later?
Does actual practice differ from doctrine?
I don't know. Never been there/done that.

 

[Spark]

If a vehicle is disabled, it's left in place. Proper convoy planning includes security plans for choke points - and not sending your convoy through areas where it's all a "choke point."

When all is said or done, if they are ambushed and are taking fire on a major street, someone else's car is getting pushed out of the way or run over. Property is easier to replace than lives.