Army's new Sniper Rifle

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G&A TV just had a interview with Reed Knight that was on this past weekend, they even talked about the SR-25 being picked as the new sniper rifle.
 
I thought the SR-25 and other such semi-auto rifles were used by designated marksmen. I've not had much personal experience with guns other than a lot of reading, but I highly doubt a modified M-14 is going to replace the M40 for sniping use.

Wasn't the M-14 used by Marine Designated Marksmen and the SR-25 used by the Army's. There is a difference between sniping and sharp shooting.
 
There is a role for both a bolt gun and a semi auto in the sniper's tool kit/golf bag of weapons. Current engagements are favoring the use of the semi auto, hence the adoption of the SR-25. Bolt guns will still be around, though a lot of them are going to 300 Win Mag in some circles. DMRs can get by with an accurized M16 type weapon (which was what the USMC decided to opt for), unless they have a need for the punch of 7.62x51 (not much need to for the extra range it allows in the DMR role).
 
The Army has vacillated between a gas gun and a bolt gun for a sniper rifle for longer than I've been around. Part of the problem lies in changing doctrine and the desired mission for the sniper. Wonder how long they'll stick with this one?
 
The AR platform in the big calibers can now do almost anything a turnbolt can do, accuracy wise - certainly within the limits of a scope with 1 MOA elevation adjustments (Leupold MkIV M3). I've seen accurized AR-10s hold their own in sniper matches.

The old argument that semi-autos aren't as accurate as bolt action rifles is harder to support these days, particularly when speaking of field rifles (as opposed to benchrest).
 
The old argument that semi-autos aren't as accurate as bolt action rifles is harder to support these days, particularly when speaking of field rifles
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Esp when that argument is a hold over from the era of the Garand, M-14, and their contemporaries in design. the gas systems of these guns due to the way they affect barrel harmonics were and are detrimental to consistent accuracy.
A gun with an AR type gas system and a free float tube does not suffer from this. except for the small amount of gas siphoned off an AR barrel is for all intents just as free of external influence as that of a bolt gun. ie the gas tube flexes with the barrel and does not in any significant way cause or restrain movement of the barrel. and all of the "moving parts" of the AR gas system are behind barrel and move in line with it, not slamming back and forth while hung off one side of the barrel.

again as others have said. at the typical engagement distances our service personel are facing, any difference in inherent accuracy between an AR-10/SR-25 type and a bolt gun such as the M-24, is FAR out weighed by the ability to effectively engage multiple targets or have a follow up shot.
 
Military is pretty lax compared to hobbyist precision shooters in regards to level of accuracy required. They are good to go with a 1 MOA gun/ weapons system.

Civvy Precision shooters aren't happy with that, and 1/2 MOA is the high end they like to see with their gear. I know my "tactical" sniper rifle shoots in the .2-.3 range all day.

This small fact is one reason an SASS system can be considered for this duty. If I had a choice, I would take the bolt over the auto any day.
 
SHOT Show rumint follows:

The rumor intell mill at the last two SHOT Shows has been thumbs way down on Knight Armaments and the SR-25s. As the story goes, repeated to me by several senior specops guys "in the loop," when the SR-25s were being practically hand made in small quantities, they had a great rep for accuracy and reliability. But once the big govt contracts started coming in, parts were contracted out all over the place, and quality went to hell in a hurry. Some of the busted gun stories I heard were amazing. The capper was Reed himself showing up on a test range at Fort Bragg in a red Ferrari to address some SF complaints. (Can you say, "War Profits?" This red Ferrari stunt really soured some senior SFers on Knight.) Needless to say, the SR-25 rep has suffered greatly. As is to be expected, the US Army is slow on the uptake about these matters, and I'm sure Knight's Armaments produced some finely tuned hand crafted rifles to wow the Army brass and win the contract. The question is, can they keep the reliability up in great govt contract numbers? Time will tell.
 
Scout: In current mostly urban employment in Iraq, snipers frequently find themselves in the middle of running gun battles as situations rapidly change. A bolt rifle is just too slow and limited in that situation. The urban sniper needs to be more adaptable. The days of a two man sniper/spotter team low crawling for days to get into position for "one shot one kill" are pretty much over, or not as common as the old days.
 
I thought the SR-25 and other such semi-auto rifles were used by designated marksmen. I've not had much personal experience with guns other than a lot of reading, but I highly doubt a modified M-14 is going to replace the M40 for sniping use.
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The SASS is based on the AR system, not the M-14 system. The M-21 and M-25 sniper rifles were based on the M-14 platform. This shows that the army has gone back and forth on the issue of "bolt action vs. semi-auto" for sniper use.

The specs for the SASS called for a "Semi Auto Sniper System." The army realized that current sniper doctrine, training, and weapons were not suited to the modern, urban battlefield environment. There is now a greater emphasis on engaging multiple targets quickly and on engaging targets at closer ranges then what was traditionally considered "sniper range."

From what I understand, the XM 110 will likely be deployed by both school trained snipers and designated marksman riflemen.

This small fact is one reason an SASS system can be considered for this duty. If I had a choice, I would take the bolt over the auto any day.
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Would you still choose the M24 (Army) or M40 (Marines) over a reliable SASS if you were tasked to fight in an urban environment and needed to quickly engage multiple targets? That's the real driving force behind the SASS.
 
Well, I guess we can call it the M110 SASS.

Re Knights: I bought one of the first SR-25 and paid a buttload of money for it. I had some problems with it, and their customer service is horrible. Unless you are a givernment entity, expect to be treated like an unwelcome relative. It took almost 3 months for a couple of simple replacement parts. But I am told that Mr Knight really knows how to work the procument people. Somehow he convince the Army to pay a flaming metric buttload of money for each rifle.

So far my experience with Knights is a high reputation that is not deserved.

YMMV

Personally, I think I'd rather but an Armalite or DPMS
 
A DPMS or Armalite AR-10 should have been adopted. They could meet the production and quality needs of the military in a rifle similar to what virtually everyone has in country already.
 
GunTech:
I had the privilige of breaking in (first shots ever) a DPMS .308 "SR-25 clone" a couple weeks ago. We did the whole slow breakin process, shot by shot and cleaning by cleaning. We were using a US Optics 8X24, if my memory is correct. Once the breakin was finished, we were making all under 1 inch 100 yard groups, and 2 inch groups at 300 yards in spite of wind and mirage. We were using Black Hills stuff, same as the Army. No malfunctions at all. Very nice rifle at a fraction of the cost of an SR-25.
 
I haven't tried the DPMS, but I have had to AR-10s from Armalite, both target versions. Both would shoot sub MOA without issue. I have been looking at the DPMS Panther LR-260, and it looks like I can build a fully tricked out version for around $2K. I'm not sure what DPMS uses for barrels, but I suspect that an Obermeyer or siilar could be fitted if desired.

My options included cryo treat bbl, ambi safety and mag release, JP trigger, Magpul stock and 4 rail tube. They don't offer the MIAD grip, but that's only about $30.

Add a USO ST-10 configured the way I like them (EREK, MOA reticle) for another $1400 and you end up with a superior SASS for around $3500.

Knight was ofttering the XM110 setup with case and accesoories for $14,000. I have no idea what they are charghing the government.

Travis, are the DPMS magazines proprietary? I know the Armalite uses modified M14 mags and the SR-25 uses original style AR-10 mags.
 
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I thought one of the problems with semi-auto rifles for (at least traditional, ghillie-suit-and-slow-crawl) snipers was ejecting brass; it reflects sunlight. Wouldn't a solution be to have a gas-operated semi-auto rifle where the gas system is easily defeatable? Then you've got a semi-auto rifle for close-in stuff but when you need to be as unobservable as possible, flick a switch and you've got a straight-pull bolt action. Use a fixed ejector so the manual ejection spped/strength is controlable.
 
The problem the Army has (and has always had), is that they are always fighting the last war. Changes are always being made in accordance with deficiencies (or perceived deficiencies) as a result of an analysis of the previous or current conflict. Solutions to problems in jungle warfare, do not carry over well to desert warfare, mountain warfare, or MOUT. Any compromise to deliver a system useable in all types of warfare typically results in a system not particularly well suited for any one particular type of warfare. It's the nature of the beast.

Don
 
Common sense would seem to dictate having some bolt and some semi-automatics at hand. It all you have are hammers, all you see are nails.
 
I would really liked to have seen DSArm's sniper FAL platform take the glory in this case.
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Much as I like the FAL, it is no match in the accuracy department to an AR-10 - not even close. The AR makes the most sense for the reasons listed above.
 
Knight was ofttering the XM110 setup with case and accesoories for $14,000.
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Maybe he's buying more than red Ferraris with all that profit [cough\]cocain[cough]
 
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