Arsenal Inc. AK47

[nalioth]

Henderson Defense has "certified" WASR3 rifles for sale that have been checked/fixed for functionality. What other company does that to an existing product that's supposed to work in the first place?

Well, most sales folks used to check everything they got in stock. This is called "good business". To be honest, I don't think HDI has to do much more than defang a small percentage of them.

It is sad today that most vendors don't check what they're supplied with, and people who order stuff get whatever came off the top of the stack, whether it's complete, finished properly or other. If it's not to their liking, they get to send it back and put up with all the nonsense with a return.

 

[Halo is for Kids]

The only problems I've had with an ak:

Had a romanian magazine with a burr on the follower. Follower got hung up and caused misfeeds. Cleaned the magazine and ran the follower up and dozen a few times to clear the burrs. It ran fine after that, the spring was pretty rusty too.

The second one was a little more serious. I had a firing pin tip smashed into a mushroom and become stuck poking out of the bolt face. Caused failures to fire, and dented primers without pulling the trigger. If it was sticking out a little farther I'd have had some slam fires.

Firing pin took no time at all to swap out. 100% since then, even with some slightly rusted wolf ammo.

 

[geojap]

I don't think I'll ever touch an Arsenal. I've heard they have bad finish, they have high malfunction rates, too expensive for what you're getting, etc.

I find that what someone has heard often doesn't relate well to reality.

I have owned many of the rifles, so I can relate direct experience. I have owned 10 AKMs and currently still own four. To be completely, 100% honest, I have never had one misfeed or misfire in my AKMs. Maybe it is because they were all Arsenal, Global Trades, Saigas and VEPRS, and that I also use good quality mags and ammo. But never one failure in several thousand rounds fired.

I have an Arsenal SLR-95 and a SLR-106FR. The 95 is an older milled rifle made completely in Bulgaria. The 106 is a stamped rifle made in the USA. The 95 is definitely higher quality; it is pretty obvious. But I have never had a problem with the 106, ever. It is lighter but it cycles fine and is accurate. My favorite is my Tromix Saiga, however. That is a slick rifle.

 

[Evil Monkey]

You've "heard"? What use is hearsay except to prove that some people are too quick to believe what they are told?

I check out some threads on different forums (here too) and find that people are having issues with the Arsenal rifle they purchased.

 

[lionking]

alright I gotta ask because the different AK styles out these days Im getting confused,it use to be simple a Chinese or Romanian.

So what about this AK for sale here,listed as a Vector which I heard Vector rifles are pretty good yet it says made by Arsenal also?


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=98588421

 

[SJDigriz]

Lots of issues out there with Arsenal these days.

Those guys have been beneficiaries of a GREAT marketing department for years.

I mean, a stamped AK is a stamped AK. Put together right with correct parts, they work.


I just hope people keep down-rating the old MAK90's - that means I get to keep buying them for $450. They are as good a stamped AK as is out there. And, my stack of discarded Planet of the Apes stocks just keeps growing.

 

[lionking]

lol I just looked on gunbroker to see what a Norinco preban underfolder was trying to be sold at.Trying to sell at $1500 up to $2000.


I remember when my friend bought his 1989 for $300 NIB.I bought it from him for double that,but it is used with alot of rounds put through it but still it works fine.


We friggin get everything else from China but hey won't let in guns anymore..........unreal.

 

[LeibstandarteAdH]

i have heard that it takes a little work to make the arsenals into what they were 5 years ago in terms of operational reliability and such. i dont own any but looked at a few before getting into milled AK's

 

[Daemon688]

As far as I'm concerned, Arsenal has become CIA. Only they're able to charge more because of their past reputation. Sorry but when I drop as much cash as I did on my M4, I don't want to have canted sights. Thanks, but no thanks. I'll stick to my Saigas. At least they have the same blood lines as my Mosin Nagant 91/30.

 

[chris in va]

My friend has a milled Arsenal, I have an unconverted Saiga. Frankly I can't see what the $400 difference would be if I converted mine. His is heavier than the Saiga, which I don't care for.

 

[Prince Yamato]

Holy God, it's a Kalashnikov. Spend $50-100 and replace what little internals it has. That should fix the problem. AK-47s aren't magic.

 

[NetJunkie]

I think the claims of Arsenal's death are greatly exaggerated. They screwed up on recent builds but I just ordered an SLR-107FR this week that arrives today. I paid $769 for it. Find me another all new parts good side folding AK for that price. It's a gun I can shoot all day and be comfortable. How is that expensive compared to other offerings? No one is paying >$1K for one of their guns, except the milled limited runs owned by collectors. I have a SSR-99, but I don't shoot it.

If they, in fact, do raise prices on new orders I blame the weak US dollar far more than I do Arsenal. It won't be long before you'll look back on the <$800 SLR series and wish you had jumped on one. Look at the price of questionable condition parts kits these days. Cheap AKs are gone.

 

[grimjaw]

I'd argue it doesn't matter how new the parts are. You're going to get the same reliability and probably the same accuracy out of other, lower-priced AKs, as you do the Arsenal stamped versions. SAR1 + a folding stock + a trigger replacement = the same type of sights, same type of action, same caliber. So what's Arsenal giving me other than an overpriced bullet hose? I think an unconverted Saiga will shoot just as well for 1/2-1/3 the price of a stamped Arsenal.

The prices from Arsenal started skyrocketing before the dollar started falling. Does anyone remember when Impact Guns had stamped Arsenal AK74 clones at Impact Guns for < $500? I do. That was a deal. Today? Not so much. The quality hasn't improved from what I see and read.

I think the milled .223s Arsenal manufactured were some of the best AKs around. The lower recoil, stiffer barrel and thus less flex, plus availability of a greater selection of quality ammunition, all contributed to that gun being more consistent than any of the other AKs I've tried. I paid $650 + tax for the one I had, and that was new. THAT was a deal. A stamped, mass-produced AK is just that. In the end, I don't care if it's got a folding stock, pistol grip, or access to 20+ round magazines. I want to hit what I'm shooting at, and I don't want to break the bank doing it.

Besides the SAM5 I had, my $90 Mosin Nagant M91/30 consistently produced the same or better groups as any stamped, unscoped AK I've fired or seen fired, with lower cost ammunition, at greater range, and with the same reliability of operation.

I'll quit blathering now, but I won't be convinced that as of this post Arsenal is producing a product the justifies a premium price.

jm

 

[NetJunkie]

In the end, I don't care if it's got a folding stock, pistol grip, or access to 20+ round magazines. I want to hit what I'm shooting at, and I don't want to break the bank doing it.

Then you aren't the target market. So go buy a Saiga for far less. But for those of us that do want those things they cost more. A converted Saiga in the configuration of the SLR-107FR I have was $400 more than I paid for the Arsenal.

 

[grimjaw]

A converted Saiga in the configuration of the SLR-107FR I have was $400 more than I paid for the Arsenal.

Then you paid too much. AIM has converted Saigas for $549. A folding stock wouldn't add much more too it.

jm

 

[NetJunkie]

Then you paid too much. AIM has converted Saigas for $549. A folding stock wouldn't add much more too it.

Then you aren't paying attention. The $549 rifle isn't an AK-103 clone. That's what I want. Does it matter if all I want is a "bullet hose"? No. But some people want different things. Sure, I can buy that and slap a $100 Ace folding stock on it for $649 but that's not what I want. For $120 more than that one I can get the SLR-107FR. Correct handguards. Muzzle brake. Correct folding stock which takes more mill work to install.

A Kia will get me to work but my Lexus is nicer.

 

[grimjaw]

I think the correct version would be fully automatic.

I'm not belittling anyone's personal choices. If you want a pink and polkadot AK used by Coco the clown, more power to you.

The original poster raised the issue that Arsenal's quality control and manufacturing standards might not be up to what one would expect out of a rifle that costs as much as they do nowadays. For the stamped versions, I would have to agree: you can get a similar or better performing AK for the same or less. The OP's comments were about performance and function, and not cosmetics.

jm

 

[trinydex]

why are milled recievers obsolete?

 

[nalioth]

why are milled recievers obsolete?

They are militarily obsolete because the stamped steel receiver achieves the same functionality with less weight and production costs.

American marketing forces will have you believe they are the cats meow and [insert other marketing crap here] . . .

 

[kcmarine]

They are militarily obsolete because the stamped steel receiver achieves the same functionality with less weight and production costs.

American marketing forces will have you believe they are the cats meow and [insert other marketing crap here] . . .

I can understand why a milled receiver would be militarily obsolete, but for the nit picker, wouldn't a milled receiver produce somewhat better groups because it is a stiffer structure?

 

[geojap]

I find the stiffer-structure argument of milled receivers to be a little over rated, although it does hold some water. I'm just not sure at what extreme point one would find that it really matters, however. But I can tell you that my milled SLR-95 is world's better in overall construction than any other stamped AKM that I own (in the original configuration).

The only one which is probably a better rifle is my Tromix Saiga .223, but the conversion on that was top notch and I've added numerous custom parts to it as well, making it ultra-functional. The Saiga wound up costing me much more than the SLR-95 did in the long run.

I've owned an SSR-99 before as well. I think the SLR-95 is world's better in construction than the SSR-99 too. There is something about the ultra-fine machining on the parts of the SLR-95 that make it slick as snot. It's hard to beat.

 

[nalioth]

I can understand why a milled receiver would be militarily obsolete, but for the nit picker, wouldn't a milled receiver produce somewhat better groups because it is a stiffer structure?

As I keep pointing out: The receiver has nothing to do with the actual accuracy of the Kalashnikov.

Actual accuracy = what the gun is capable of from a machine rest (where it absolutely does not move between shots).

The AK bolt is locked to the barrel at the moment of firing, and doesn't even start to unlock before the bullet is far down range. What receiver it is equipped with is irrelevant to the guns actual accuracy.

"Perceived accuracy" is very often confused for 'actual accuracy' in opinion.
Your perceptions are gonna be different from mine.
A veteran target shooter will have different perceptions than a fresh green conscript.
Joe-6'5/270lbs will have a different experience than Miss Petite-9- pound-wet.

In perceived accuracy, the heavier weight of the milled receiver enhances the perception, as more weight absorbs more recoil. Less movement during recoil = less movement to get back on target = 'better perceived accuracyl'

Accuracy and AKs is a moot point anyway. If you can consistently perforate a milk jug at 250m, it and you are doing what it was designed for.

 

[Girodin]

In my humble opinion a quality conversion of a saiga is money better spent than an arsanal.

 

[Don't Tread On Me]

My Saiga has dimples

Saiga conversions are the highest quality and the most cost effective making them the best choice. BUT ...if you want to convert the front end and make it as close as possible to the 100 series, it will cost a lot more. If I were to do that, I'd want a dimpled receiver Saiga to make it as authentic as possible. Many people who go that route start with those receivers.

But I wouldn't because I believe the Saiga handguards are superior. Longer, more protective of your hands ...they do the job and are comfy to use. That's my opinion. I have no idea how they would hold up to full-auto mag dumps ..then again, my Saiga is not a select fire so it is moot. The only downside of the Saiga handguards is the lack of side sling attachment. That's about it.

The guys who go all the way are doing it for other reasons. They want a clone, something authentic looking. When you look at a converted Saiga...it looks like a converted Saiga. When you see a Saiga professionally converted to an AK-100 series ..it looks like an AK.

 

[Spinnerblade]

I called again today to check on my rifle{May 13}. The lady said they still haven't gotten to it yet. I said ok and bye and hung up.
Looks like this might take a while.Patrick