Article - New Term: 'Super Owner'

[RX-79G]

We're objecting to a very biased media running a constant smear campaign on gun owners. Wise up genius.

Well, is it a "smear campaign" when the opposition posits a fact, or are you just referring to using labels for those categories of facts?


I don't think a campaign against actual facts makes us look good. As I've said in many other threads, we are very poor about being proactive in terms of selling our story, and you can't make an offensive out of defense.


How about keeping the insults out of this?

 

[Deanimator]

We're objecting to a very biased media running a constant smear campaign on gun owners. Wise up genius.

Never, ever engage on their terms.

Attack, attack, attack.

They're totally unprepared for serious pushback.

 

[TwoFirstNames]

Only problem is that statistics based upon surveys aren't even close to reliable. I, being a scientist by education and trade, have a hard time calling them "facts."
But, the average person doesn't understand that the numbers presented may be absolutely correct, or may be off by orders of magnitude, and, unless you can point to specific errors in math or assumptions, you won't convince the average person that the numbers presented are meaningless. Therefore, they are perceived as facts, and we all know reality matters less than our perception of reality.
So, what do we do? To me, the answer is still the same. Use statistics (which are just as unreliable on our side of the argument as well) for the national message and make sure you are a good example of a upright citizen. Take new people shooting when you can. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Captain33036]

It will not matter that this is junk "science." It will be called a "study" and used as gospel.

The best defense (IMHO) is to push back, as stated above.

There is NO SUCH THING as a "super owner"...so SAY SO. There is NO SUCH THING.

You do not call an art collector who has more than some arbitrary number a "Super owner" or even super collector. Nor do we refer to stamp collectors that way, antique collectors, coffee cup collector.

Maybe more push back would have helped when they made up the fictitious term "Assault weapon." Maybe more people should have pushed back saying, there is no such thing!

 

[buck460XVR]

Never, ever engage on their terms.

Attack, attack, attack.

They're totally unprepared for serious pushback.

....and there lies the rub. The majority of pro-gun rants I see on internet gun forums contain the same amount of biased/twisted facts and doctored numbers as any anti-gun rant I've ever seen. Folks whine about the antis tactics while using those same tactics themselves. This is what I mean about lowering ourselves to their level.

Making the claim that the antis are totally unprepared, only shows how unprepared and ignorant we too can be.


TwoFirstNames had it partially correct....

make sure you are a good example of a upright citizen. Take new people shooting when you can. Rinse and repeat.

 

[RX-79G]

Only problem is that statistics based upon surveys aren't even close to reliable. I, being a scientist by education and trade, have a hard time calling them "facts."
But, the average person doesn't understand that the numbers presented may be absolutely correct, or may be off by orders of magnitude, and, unless you can point to specific errors in math or assumptions, you won't convince the average person that the numbers presented are meaningless. Therefore, they are perceived as facts, and we all know reality matters less than our perception of reality.
So, what do we do? To me, the answer is still the same. Use statistics (which are just as unreliable on our side of the argument as well) for the national message and make sure you are a good example of a upright citizen. Take new people shooting when you can. Rinse and repeat.

Good. So we need to either commission polls showing the relative reticence of people to answer truthfully about certain topics (guns, sexuality, money) or find existing ones and tie them to this story.

Attack, attack, attack.

They're totally unprepared for serious pushback.

Great idea. What actual actions are you talking about?

 

[threoh8]

I prefer the term, "citizen".

 

[Deanimator]

....and there lies the rub. The majority of pro-gun rants I see on internet gun forums contain the same amount of biased/twisted facts and doctored numbers as any anti-gun rant I've ever seen. Folks whine about the antis tactics while using those same tactics themselves. This is what I mean about lowering ourselves to their level.

Making the claim that the antis are totally unprepared, only shows how unprepared and ignorant we too can be.


TwoFirstNames had it partially correct....

Decades of personal experience tells me that they ARE totally unprepared for serious pushback. If they WERE, they wouldn't resort to racial slurs, homophobia, anti-Semitism, etc.

When you get called a racial slur for pointing out the invidiously racist history of gun control, you know the quality of their "argument".

They don't want "discussion".

They want blind submissive OBEDIENCE.

When you aggressively fail to render it, they're put TOTALLY off guard.

 

[RX-79G]

Decades of personal experience tells me that they ARE totally unprepared for serious pushback. If they WERE, they wouldn't resort to racial slurs, homophobia, anti-Semitism, etc.

When you get called a racial slur for pointing out the invidiously racist history of gun control, you know the quality of their "argument".

They don't want "discussion".

They want blind submissive OBEDIENCE.

When you aggressively fail to render it, they're put TOTALLY off guard.

Great. What are you suggesting this pushback looks like?

 

[Deanimator]

Good. So we need to either commission polls showing the relative reticence of people to answer truthfully about certain topics (guns, sexuality, money) or find existing ones and tie them to this story.



Great idea. What actual actions are you talking about?

1. I'm active in the local newspaper online comment section. I watch for gun control related discussions. I don't let ANY lie go unchallenged. I refuse to buy into their narratives, challenging them incessantly. I point out the racist skeletons in their closet at every opportunity.
2. In face to face discussions, I point out the lies that have been told and the contradictions in the other side's arguments. People don't like being lied to. I show them where they have been.

 

[Mauser lover]

They didn't ask me, so their survey is skewed.

(Which is why "surveys" don't actually work. They take a "random sample" and hope that they get it right, or maybe not. The type of person who has the time and gumption to answer the survey at all is already a slanted sample.)

 

[Quentin]

Well I guess Hillary is a super user, considering the number of firearms in her entourage. Maybe she's even concealing a few under those triple X size pants suits!

 

[RX-79G]

1. I'm active in the local newspaper online comment section. I watch for gun control related discussions. I don't let ANY lie go unchallenged. I refuse to buy into their narratives, challenging them incessantly. I point out the racist skeletons in their closet at every opportunity.
2. In face to face discussions, I point out the lies that have been told and the contradictions in the other side's arguments. People don't like being lied to. I show them where they have been.

Do you find the angry, condescending tone you use on this forum serves you well in making converts through the comment section?

 

[Ed Ames]

http://www.csmonitor.com/layout/set/amphtml/USA/Society/2016/0921/Who-are-America-s-gun-super-owners

"Who are America's gun 'super-owners'?"
...
“I’m what used to be considered a Joe Average American...”

 

[Mike OTDP]

It's worth pointing out that if you are a serious competitor, the guns do accumulate.

Example: I shoot in the North-South Skirmish Association, and for the U.S. International Muzzle-Loading Team. So I wind up with:

Rifle-Musket: Primary and backup
Carbine: Primary and backup
Revolver: I use this for both N-SSA and International, so Primary and TWO backups.
Original percussion target pistol: Primary and backup
Repro percussion target pistol: Primary and backup, I use this to train to minimize wear on the originals.
Original flintlock dueling pistol: Primary and two backups. Good guns are SCARCE, I've taken every opportunity to get one.
Repro flintlock dueling pistol: Used for training. Primary and backup.
Original revolver: Primary and backup
Repro matchlock pistol: Primary, I don't compete with it.

Total: 19, and that doesn't even begin on antiques bought purely as investments, nor the cartridge guns. I'm equipped to shoot all ISSF pistol disciplines.

 

[morcey2]

I think I'm a super-owner. I started counting but I ran out of fingers and toes. If my guzintas are correct, that's somewhere around 14. At least that was before the tragic boating accident.

I don't buy the "survey" at all. I've never been called for a survey and I really doubt I'd tell a complete stranger that I own guns, let alone how many I have. Less than half of the gun people I've talked to about this would either.

Good. So we need to either commission polls showing the relative reticence of people to answer truthfully about certain topics (guns, sexuality, money) or find existing ones and tie them to this story.

Somewhere in the deep, dark recesses of my cerebral cortex, as questionable as that may be, I think there was a survey directed at known gun owners (how they got the list, I'm not sure) back about 7 or 8 years ago and about half of the people wouldn't do the survey or wouldn't admit to owning any guns. I'll see if I can find it.

Matt

 

[Deanimator]

Do you find the angry, condescending tone you use on this forum serves you well in making converts through the comment section?

Yes. People don't like being lied to. When you prove that they've been lied to, they get angry too.

I don't waste any more time on converting "movement" antis than I would on converting islamists or Holocaust deniers.

I concentrate on their victims, and showing them how they've been lied to and exploited.

If you've convinced yourself that the other side is sincere or honest, well good luck with that.

 

[RX-79G]

Yes. People don't like being lied to. When you prove that they've been lied to, they get angry too.

I don't waste any more time on converting "movement" antis than I would on converting islamists or Holocaust deniers.

I concentrate on their victims, and showing them how they've been lied to and exploited.

If you've convinced yourself that the other side is sincere or honest, well good luck with that.

So you're saying that there are absolutely only two sides, everyone is already on one side or the other and that isn't going to change.

 

[tmoore912]

Zogby Analytics Feb 25, 2015

QUESTION: "If a national pollster asked you if you owned a firearm, would you determine to tell him or her the truth or would you feel it was none of their business?"

36% of Americans feel it is none of the pollster's business and that includes 35% of current gun owners 47% of Republicans and 42% of Independents

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...tic-and-international-concerns-300041108.html

 

[OilyPablo]

Hey I resemble that Zogby poll.

 

[Deanimator]

So you're saying that there are absolutely only two sides, everyone is already on one side or the other and that isn't going to change.

That's precisely the OPPOSITE of what I said.

There is a hard core of anti-gun cultists who are the equivalent of Holocaust deniers trolling for the ignorant.

Then there are a bunch of people largely or entirely ignorant of firearms, self-defense and the laws which govern them.

The cultists shamelessly lie to the ignorant the way that Holocaust deniers lie to the uneducated.

I show their victims how they're being lied to by the cultists. This tends to provoke a negative reaction toward the cultists.

I've done similar things with gays and NAMBLA. Most normal people don't like being lied to and exploited, whether by VPC or NAMBLA.

But again, if you think that Bloomberg is sincere and honest, good luck with that.

Of course you could be one of the ones who says, "I'm all in favor of the 2nd Amendment, BUT..." If so, maybe you can get AHSA started again. There's no column like a fifth column...

 

[tmoore912]

Twitter:

Sean Davis ‏@seanmdav 6 hours ago
If you're super jazzed about that new gun poll showing hardly anybody owns guns, you're probably an idiot.
http://thefederalist.com/2016/09/21/journalists-need-skeptical-new-gun-study-ownership/

Perfect. Great read about this new poll.

Journalists Should Be A Lot More Skeptical Of That New Gun Study.
Gun owners lie to pollsters. All the time. Often in extremely creative ways. People who actually know gun owners know this.

 

[tark]

I have 71 guns, and if that makes liberals mad I can only say this:

I can buy more and make you even madder. And I will......

 

[Flynt]

What strikes me when I read an article like this, especially if it's by a Brit, is the odd tone. They seem like early white explorers describing their encounters with aboriginal tribes -- what peculiar people, with their strange, bizarre customs. Frankly, they're a bit frightening. The writers are clearly perplexed by the notion of anyone owning guns at all, and they regard the people they observe are like bugs under a magnifying glass

 

[barnbwt]

So we need to either commission polls showing the relative reticence of people to answer truthfully about certain topics (guns, sexuality, money) or find existing ones and tie them to this story.

You can't possibly be serious. Using a poll to identify how many people are lying on a poll.

As I've said in many other threads, we are very poor about being proactive in terms of selling our story, and you can't make an offensive out of defense.

By all means offer a palatable alternative to the ugly reality of why self defense is important. Is it hunting? Or target shooting? Or the fact that because evil people exist, we need to maintain the means to fight back against them.

So you're saying that there are absolutely only two sides, everyone is already on one side or the other and that isn't going to change.

I believe this is far more true than the notion there are hordes of 'undecided' people out there. This is a pretty basic concept, freedom to exercise self defense, and while it is possible for a person to evade the topic well into adulthood or change their viewpoint through experience, it is rare that they have no opinion or one so weak that a quick discussion "telling our story" will sway them.

Great. What are you suggesting this pushback looks like?

RX, are you trying to bait people into advocating for violent action so they can get an account warning/lock?

TCB