Article:U.K. watchdog condemns film's violent gun ads

[SaMx]

does the UK have any type of freedom of speech? in the US this would fall under first amendment protection, wouldn't it.

 

[macFarlaine]

Point being Sterling,there was not enough firearms to protect the UK from possible invasion.My grandfather made Spitfires and was in the home guard,he trained for 3 months with a broom handle AKA Dads Army.He did receive a firearm later but had no bullets for a further 4 weeks.

 

[Red Neck64]

That's just silly,everyone can plainly see the gun is the basic prop for 90% of Hollywood movies and TV shows,but the good deeds the gun can achieve is never shown,just the evil deeds of the gun are the money makers at the box office.

 

[Fosbery]

I think you're on the mark. If firearms were so common in England, back in the day, why did your goverment have to ask U.S. private citizens to send their firearms over the pond in 1940/41?

Britain never asked for private arms from the United States. The NRA sent them without ever asking if they were wanted. They weren't and were certainly never issued. In the early days the Home Guard was equipped mostly with British private arms and broom handles or improvised spears for drilling and bayonet practice. When production stepped up they were issued British, Canadian and American manufactured military issue arms.

Even so, this is in 1940, 20 years after gun control in Britain began. Even with 40% private gun ownership, millions of guns would be needed to equip everyone - and that's ignoring the fact that most of these would be smallbore rifles, shotguns and pistols - not much use for contemporary warfare. Whilst the US would be awash with fullbore rifles, in Britain these were relatively rare, with pistols, smallbores and shotguns being much more popular (not much to hunt with a rifle in Britain and most ranges are for pistols and smallbore).

As far as I know there was never an active drive for it, but a lot of British arms were handed in during WW2. Indeed, WW2 really helped end the last vestiges of mass-gun ownership in the UK as millions turned theirs in for the war effort - my grandfather handed in a pair of Webleys (one big, one small), a Colt .45 and a Mauser of some kind (it wasn't of German manufacture but he could never remember what it was). My father also handed in a Walther and another Webley, but kept his rifle and shotgun. Then, in 1945 the Home Office decided that "self-defence" was no longer a good reason for a firearms certificate so after WW2 only sportsmen and hunters bought guns.

 

[sterling180]

Too bad Margaret Thatcher's age is catching up with her. She could get the Brits back on their feet.

Thatcher,as was pointed out last year,was equally bad as a gun grabber,because her party was responsible for disarming us of fullbore slrs and pump rifles,after Hungerford in 1988/89.

 

[Red Neck64]

Fosbery,They DID ask for guns from the NRA,with the agreement the guns would be returned at the end of War,but the guns never were returned but destroyed instead.Look it up?

 

[sterling180]

Point being Sterling,there was not enough firearms to protect the UK from possible invasion.My grandfather made Spitfires and was in the home guard,he trained for 3 months with a broom handle AKA Dads Army.He did receive a firearm later but had no bullets for a further 4 weeks.

Fair enough,I'm just racing in as usual to ammend the usual anti-gun drivel.Next time,I'll read the posts carefully.What an absolute disgrace,that there wasn't enough arms upto September 1939-I still can't believe that an smgs,didn't really appear until,the start of the war-in our military's arsenals

Getting back to the article:Is that really going to make someone go out and kill people with a gun,because I've seen adverts for Far Cry and Medal of Honor and Band of Brothers,featuring gun fire?What a bunch of pc lunatics,I should recommend them to be commited to Broadmoor.Only then they can see really insane people.Guns have featured on movie adverts and tv adverts over here and the Sweeney,The Professionals,The Bill and Ultimate Force,are just some shows,to feature this.

 

[Checkman]

Okay. Your country, your history. I won't argue with you regarding if the NRA was asked or if they sent the guns on their own volition. However ,from what Fosbery wrote about the private firearms of British citizens not being returned after the war(well I am assuming here) I guess it's a fairly safe assumption that the American firearms went to the same place.

When I was stationed in Germany a decade ago one of my fellow soldiers was married to a Scot. She had The Professionals and The Sweeney on tape (among others). Her VCR was British so that gets around that whole regional thing. Anyway those were pretty good shows - especially when you consider they're 70's television. I really liked The Sweeney. Pretty gritty stuff and aspects of it are on the mark regarding police work. England, U.S., people are people and much of the work is the same.

The last part has nothing to do with this thread. Just thought I would put it in there.

 

[macFarlaine]

I think we are all in agreement there Stirling.Slightly of topic.I have been fortunate to have a look round some museums in the UK that relate to firearms.Not the usual public view but the cellars where the vast majority of firearms are stored.
I am appalled at the conditions these firearms are stored in,damp,dusty,dirty basements.I recognised the vast majority of these firearms as historic pieces and in some case very rare and unusual.The public will never see these firearms and we will be lucky if they are not destroyed in the coming years.

 

[Fosbery]

However ,from what Fosbery wrote about the private firearms of British citizens not being returned after the war(well I am assuming here) I guess it's a fairly safe assumption that the American firearms went to the same place.

Yes, that's right. I'm not sure if they were destroyed or just kept in an armoury somewhere. I suspect a lot of the British guns went walkabout due to sticky fingers before they ever reached someone of authority. What people should have done was hand them direct to the local home guard unit, but from what I hear they mostly took them to police stations who had no idea what to do with them.

 

[Officers'Wife]

HI Checkman,

My Dad has a letter from the King to my great great Grandfather thanking him for the donation of three rifles and assuring him they would be returned along with the gratitude of the Brithish people when the 'unpleasantness' was over with.

No one has seen the rifles again and the gratitude is anyone's guess. As my landlord's commander told the Germans. "NUTS!"

Selena

 

[legaleagle_45]

Hi Selena

No one has seen the rifles again and the gratitude is anyone's guess.

They were probably dumped in the English Channel following the war... that was the fate for most of the donated weapons.

 

[Checkman]

Apparently there is a Winchester Model 70 in the NRA's museum that was loaned to England in 1940 and somehow made it back to the States. I've seen a photo of it. The owner had a metal plate fixed to the stock with his name and address engraved on it. Don't know if that made the difference or not.

It's been a few years. The photo was in the American Rifleman magazine. It's a beautiful rifle. Pre-64 of course.

 

[matt87]

There could well be a large secure warehouse 'somewhere in England' where those donated arms are sitting, patiently awaiting for something to hapen. A bit like all the pistols confiscated (stolen) in 1997...

 

[sterling180]

There could well be a large secure warehouse 'somewhere in England' where those donated arms are sitting, patiently awaiting for something to hapen. A bit like all the pistols confiscated (stolen) in 1997...

There is and I've seen photos of it,but I can't remember exactly where it was,but it was probably either in the Enfield Pattern Room or in the Birmingham Proof House,itself.All I know is that slrs and pistols of every make are stored there and have been collected from private legal and illegal arsenals.So it's evident that not every handgun or slr was destroyed,after the two major bans.This warehouse or warehouses,serves as government storage,for training resources,for civil service and military employees.Civil service,meaning MI5/6 and the police forces.

 

[sterling180]

I think we are all in agreement there Stirling.Slightly of topic.I have been fortunate to have a look round some museums in the UK that relate to firearms.Not the usual public view but the cellars where the vast majority of firearms are stored.
I am appalled at the conditions these firearms are stored in,damp,dusty,dirty basements.I recognised the vast majority of these firearms as historic pieces and in some case very rare and unusual.The public will never see these firearms and we will be lucky if they are not destroyed in the coming years.

Yes,I know that this seems very enevitable,as people over here are very ignorant of guns.I winced after seeing pictures of a destroyed Colt 1911(Original model,pre-1920 and not A1 model.),a WW2 Walther P.38 and a Luger P.08 (1936 Model.),pinned in the notice board,outside my local police station-staing that the hand in date was,October 1997.What a bloody waste,not to mention of the value of these things,too-because they were fairly rare types.

 

[Fosbery]

I never understood why so many people handed over their beautiful old guns to be destroyed. The police didn't get their grubby hands on one of mine, they all went abroad - I wish more people had done the same.

 

[Checkman]

I never understood why so many people handed over their beautiful old guns to be destroyed. The police didn't get their grubby hands on one of mine, they all went abroad - I wish more people had done the same.

I recall reading an article in one of the gun mags in 98/99. The writer talked about doing the same thing. He now makes the occassional trip to the u.s. to compete in IPSIC and shoot his firearms.

I have an article from a British newspaper from September 97 talking about the turn-in. The reporter spent some time at one of the police stations where the weapons were being collected. Spoke to both the police and the gunowners. Geez that's a hard read.

I have it pinned on the wall next to my gunsafe. I read it periodically for motivation.

 

[AntiqueCollector]

Point being Sterling,there was not enough firearms to protect the UK from possible invasion.

Hard to fight a war with mostly small revolvers and shotguns. The guns most gun owners would have had in Britain would have been nearly useless in defending against the Germans. It perhaps wasn't so much numbers as types. There were a lot of cheap pocket revolvers and shotguns made in the late 19th and early 20th centuries which most people could afford if they saved their money slowly.