Assault Weapon Recommendations: NJ
- Thread starter Highland Ranger
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MAUSER88 said:Sorry but I see nothing about mags being blocked to hold no more than 15 rounds being illegal??
PS. When has the Brady Center ever told the truth about firearms anyway????
I agree about the brady thing.
I was at the NM shoot in Aug. there and a shooter on the line had a flyer he got from his gun club in central NJ that had a copy of the NJ resolution/ law, thing, whatever you'd call it.
i have seen it on the NJSP page, and will look again to find it.
admitadly, it sucks, I'm not for it and again, short of the PD somehow involved with you personally, how do they enforce it?
just bring 10 to the range.
Just found this:
may stand corrected by myself....
WARNING! ATTENTION
ALL BLOCKED LARGE CAPACITY MAGAZINE OWNERS!
The State Police have proposed new Administrative Code Regulations which
will turn 1000's of unsuspecting law abiding BLOCKED LARGE CAPACITY MAGAZINE
OWNERS into instant CRIMINALS.
The new Regulations reverse the prior position of the State Police which
allowed the possession and sale of Temporarily Blocked LCM's.
1000's of Temporarily Blocked LCM's have been sold by licensed NJ dealers to
honest gun owners in reliance upon the prior written statements from the
State Police. Note: A violation of the LCM Ban is a Crime of the 4th Degree
(18 months Max. State Prison)
Here is a direct quote from the proposal:
N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.2 is amended to clarify that the definition of a large
capacity ammunition magazine does not include an ammunition magazine that
has been permanently altered so that it is not capable of holding more than 15
rounds of ammunition. The definition is further amended to include an
ammunition magazine which has been temporarily blocked from holding more
than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood or a pin. The New Jersey Supreme Court has
determined that in N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1f, the term firearm was defined "not in
terms of operability, but in terms of what the weapon was designed to do."
See State v. Gantt, 101 N.J. 573, 583 (1986). A device no longer retains the
characteristics of a firearm when "it has undergone such substantial
alteration or mutilation that the instrument has completely and permanently lost the
characteristics of a real gun." Id. At 590 (emphasis added). Based on the
plain language of the statute and case law, the amendment modifies the definition
of a "large capacity ammunition magazine" by inserting the word "permanently"
in between "been" and "altered."
The State recognizes that some of its representatives may have provided
informal advice to the effect that an ammunition magazine may be temporarily
blocked to hold no more than 15 rounds; however, the Attorney General has
never expressly adopted this position. To the contrary, through the promulgation
of this regulation, the State expressly rejects that interpretation of the
statute. Any person who currently owns or possesses an ammunition magazine
which has been temporarily blocked from holding more than 15 rounds is
hereby advised that he or she may retain possession of that ammunition magazine
until the effective date of this amendment, that is, the date the notice of its
adoption by the Division of State Police is published by the Office of
Administrative Law in the New Jersey Register, see N.J.A.C. 1:30-6.6. During
this time period, a person who owns or possesses an ammunition magazine
which has been temporarily blocked from holding more than 15 rounds shall either:
(1) transfer such ammunition magazine to any person or firm lawfully entitled to
own or possess a large capacity ammunition magazine; (2) render such
ammunition magazine permanently incapable of holding more than 15 rounds; or (3)
voluntarily surrender the ammunition magazine pursuant to the provisions of
N.J.S.A. 2C:39-12. After the effective date of this amendment, a person who
owns or possesses an ammunition magazine which has been temporarily blocked
from holding more than 15 rounds shall voluntarily surrender the ammunition
magazine pursuant to the provisions of N.J.S.A. 2C:39-12 or risk prosecution
for unlawful possession of a large capacity magazine pursuant to N.J.S.A.
2C:39-3(j). Finally, N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.2 has been amended to include a
definition of "pistol grip" and "semi-automatic." These definitions are
identical to those contained in N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1(z) and (x), respectively.
Specifically, "pistol grip" has been defined to mean a well-defined handle,
similar to that found on a handgun, that protrudes conspicuously beneath the
action of the weapon, and which permits the shotgun to be held and fired
with one hand, and "semi-automatic" has been defined to mean a firearm which
fires a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger and is self-reloading
or automatically chambers a round, cartridge or bullet. (EMPHASIS ADDED)
To view the proposal in its entirety go to:
http://www.state.nj.us/lps/rules/njsp/rp010702a.htm
may stand corrected by myself....
WARNING! ATTENTION
ALL BLOCKED LARGE CAPACITY MAGAZINE OWNERS!
The State Police have proposed new Administrative Code Regulations which
will turn 1000's of unsuspecting law abiding BLOCKED LARGE CAPACITY MAGAZINE
OWNERS into instant CRIMINALS.
The new Regulations reverse the prior position of the State Police which
allowed the possession and sale of Temporarily Blocked LCM's.
1000's of Temporarily Blocked LCM's have been sold by licensed NJ dealers to
honest gun owners in reliance upon the prior written statements from the
State Police. Note: A violation of the LCM Ban is a Crime of the 4th Degree
(18 months Max. State Prison)
Here is a direct quote from the proposal:
N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.2 is amended to clarify that the definition of a large
capacity ammunition magazine does not include an ammunition magazine that
has been permanently altered so that it is not capable of holding more than 15
rounds of ammunition. The definition is further amended to include an
ammunition magazine which has been temporarily blocked from holding more
than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood or a pin. The New Jersey Supreme Court has
determined that in N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1f, the term firearm was defined "not in
terms of operability, but in terms of what the weapon was designed to do."
See State v. Gantt, 101 N.J. 573, 583 (1986). A device no longer retains the
characteristics of a firearm when "it has undergone such substantial
alteration or mutilation that the instrument has completely and permanently lost the
characteristics of a real gun." Id. At 590 (emphasis added). Based on the
plain language of the statute and case law, the amendment modifies the definition
of a "large capacity ammunition magazine" by inserting the word "permanently"
in between "been" and "altered."
The State recognizes that some of its representatives may have provided
informal advice to the effect that an ammunition magazine may be temporarily
blocked to hold no more than 15 rounds; however, the Attorney General has
never expressly adopted this position. To the contrary, through the promulgation
of this regulation, the State expressly rejects that interpretation of the
statute. Any person who currently owns or possesses an ammunition magazine
which has been temporarily blocked from holding more than 15 rounds is
hereby advised that he or she may retain possession of that ammunition magazine
until the effective date of this amendment, that is, the date the notice of its
adoption by the Division of State Police is published by the Office of
Administrative Law in the New Jersey Register, see N.J.A.C. 1:30-6.6. During
this time period, a person who owns or possesses an ammunition magazine
which has been temporarily blocked from holding more than 15 rounds shall either:
(1) transfer such ammunition magazine to any person or firm lawfully entitled to
own or possess a large capacity ammunition magazine; (2) render such
ammunition magazine permanently incapable of holding more than 15 rounds; or (3)
voluntarily surrender the ammunition magazine pursuant to the provisions of
N.J.S.A. 2C:39-12. After the effective date of this amendment, a person who
owns or possesses an ammunition magazine which has been temporarily blocked
from holding more than 15 rounds shall voluntarily surrender the ammunition
magazine pursuant to the provisions of N.J.S.A. 2C:39-12 or risk prosecution
for unlawful possession of a large capacity magazine pursuant to N.J.S.A.
2C:39-3(j). Finally, N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.2 has been amended to include a
definition of "pistol grip" and "semi-automatic." These definitions are
identical to those contained in N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1(z) and (x), respectively.
Specifically, "pistol grip" has been defined to mean a well-defined handle,
similar to that found on a handgun, that protrudes conspicuously beneath the
action of the weapon, and which permits the shotgun to be held and fired
with one hand, and "semi-automatic" has been defined to mean a firearm which
fires a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger and is self-reloading
or automatically chambers a round, cartridge or bullet. (EMPHASIS ADDED)
To view the proposal in its entirety go to:
http://www.state.nj.us/lps/rules/njsp/rp010702a.htm
demusn1979
Member
Gewehr98 said:
Post 4000 congrats!
geekWithA.45
Moderator Emeritus
If I'm not mistaken, this was already shot down. Note the 2002 date.
Basically, about 300 members of the normally complacent ANJRPC got off their butts and implemented an effective letter writing campaign.
Bully for them, for a change.
As for folks who have noted a certain amount of derision towards the ANJRPC, all I've got to say is that they had nearly a million dollars in their coffers when "smart guns" was passed.
You'd think they might have put some of that to good use.
Basically, about 300 members of the normally complacent ANJRPC got off their butts and implemented an effective letter writing campaign.
Bully for them, for a change.
As for folks who have noted a certain amount of derision towards the ANJRPC, all I've got to say is that they had nearly a million dollars in their coffers when "smart guns" was passed.
You'd think they might have put some of that to good use.
geekWithA.45 said:
I wonder if there's a time limit on how long it may take me to get there. LOL
I have friends that are gunsmiths, I may happen to be taking one over to him at, say aaa, midnight !
Wonder if they could give me any grief about just carrying the ammo ?
Yep, old news. There has been no change by the AG's office concerning blocked mags. I belong to CJRPC in Jackson where Evan Nappen is a member and questioned him on this very issue. He strongly advise's if you have a mag over 15 rounds you should block it permanently as it's in your best interest, however it's not the law yet! Just more NJ ambiguity when it comes to gun laws.
Highland Ranger
Member
geekWithA.45 said:
We probably need a new thread for this one but it's much more than that . . . .
Use their range, here are just a few of their anti gun rules:
- no "reckless" rapid fire; so if you hve a new SD firearm you carry in one of the free states, you can't train for emptying it under rapid fire; I myself with my son and brother were thrown off the range for emptying a 1911 with basically a slight pause inbetween each shot. Not slow, but not "reckless"
- no holsters unless you are a super citizen (cop); so again, those of us who carry when visiting a free state can't train. But the cops can.
- the handgun range is set up so you can't shoot the NRA qualification course; it's the state NRA range by the way . . .
- They are unpleasant and don't seem very inviting to anyone outside their crowd. The range officers are universally nasty and stand-offish.
- Try to bring a visitor
- Kids: up until last year kids were not allowed to shoot handguns at all. That's not a NJ law, just their rule . . . . now apparently it was challenged and shot down - but the kids now need to take some kind of safety class
I could go on.
But then what would you expect from the state NRA org in NJ? If they were active and engaged, and provided a beacon for responsible safe firearms ownership, maybe we wouldn't have the laws we have.
geekWithA.45
Moderator Emeritus
M1 Carbine clones....
It depends.
Is it named "M1 Carbine"? (Or whatever it actually says on the statute)
Does it have > 2 "evil features"?
You could name a single shot break action .22lr rifle something on the banned list, and behold, it would be banned.
Incidentally, you may NOT own a new AR-15, or AK-47, if it is named thus.
You may own an XM-15, or a SAR-10, however.
As a result, Bushmasters are a lot more popular than Colts, except for the model designated "National Match"
It depends.
Is it named "M1 Carbine"? (Or whatever it actually says on the statute)
Does it have > 2 "evil features"?
You could name a single shot break action .22lr rifle something on the banned list, and behold, it would be banned.
Incidentally, you may NOT own a new AR-15, or AK-47, if it is named thus.
You may own an XM-15, or a SAR-10, however.
As a result, Bushmasters are a lot more popular than Colts, except for the model designated "National Match"
Well mine is made by Plainsflied and it does have .30 M1 caliber on it.
It is silly that an M1 Carbine is illegal in NJ but an AK47 clone isn't.
If somebody got aressted for this I would hope that the court would throw it out. Or even better the cop get chewed out by the DA.
Then again isn't someone serving time for having a Marlin Model 60 that held 17 rounds?
-Bill
It is silly that an M1 Carbine is illegal in NJ but an AK47 clone isn't.
If somebody got aressted for this I would hope that the court would throw it out. Or even better the cop get chewed out by the DA.
Then again isn't someone serving time for having a Marlin Model 60 that held 17 rounds?
-Bill
demusn1979
Member
Illinois is bad ,chicago is worse i lived there 30 years.whm1974 said:
Arkansas is great.
Shrinkmd
Member
Any Yugo 59/66 stories?
Even though it is from Sarco and only has 2 "evil" features, the bayonet and the grenade launcher (not that most people would even know what the hell that looks like) I still wonder about the "what if's" on it. The law clearly states that as long as the SKS doesn't have a removable magazine it is fine...
Even though it is from Sarco and only has 2 "evil" features, the bayonet and the grenade launcher (not that most people would even know what the hell that looks like) I still wonder about the "what if's" on it. The law clearly states that as long as the SKS doesn't have a removable magazine it is fine...
geekWithA.45
Moderator Emeritus
I don't believe Mr. Pelleteri is serving time for his model 60, although he did recieve a felony conviction.
Kevin Baker's got the goods:
http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2003_11_23_smallestminority_archive.html
scroll to the bottom post.
Kevin Baker's got the goods:
http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2003_11_23_smallestminority_archive.html
scroll to the bottom post.
RavenVT100
Member
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2004
- Messages
- 1,107
Of course, since I bought it just for you, officer.
Highland Ranger
Member
Resurrecting an old thread . . .
Because its that time of year again. Can't believe another few years have passed.
Since I posted this way back when I decided to learn about long arms by starting with a few 22's. A CZ, Browning and a few others - lots of fun.
But I again find myself looking to fulfill this need since I never completed the task.
Looks like I missed the Garand boat - only the lower quality ones left at CMP.
Would like to get an AR but looking in Nappen's book, he says the law specifically names the "Bushmaster Assault Rifle", the Colt AR-15 and any others "substantially identical". No idea what that means.
Question - does anyone (legally) own an AR of any kind in NJ?
Was kind of liking the looks of this one: http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/pcwa2s20ss.asp
I hate to go shopping an just buy whatever is there, like to take a little care, do some research and typically buy something a cut above.
Where's the best place to go for some selection these days?
Was thinking of ordering an M1a from Springfield through Davidson's - bit of a rip off but at least I get what I want.
Looks like a mini-14 is legal with a straight stock. Also available through Davidson's - not a Ruger fam though.
Because its that time of year again. Can't believe another few years have passed.
Since I posted this way back when I decided to learn about long arms by starting with a few 22's. A CZ, Browning and a few others - lots of fun.
But I again find myself looking to fulfill this need since I never completed the task.
Looks like I missed the Garand boat - only the lower quality ones left at CMP.
Would like to get an AR but looking in Nappen's book, he says the law specifically names the "Bushmaster Assault Rifle", the Colt AR-15 and any others "substantially identical". No idea what that means.
Question - does anyone (legally) own an AR of any kind in NJ?
Was kind of liking the looks of this one: http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/pcwa2s20ss.asp
I hate to go shopping an just buy whatever is there, like to take a little care, do some research and typically buy something a cut above.
Where's the best place to go for some selection these days?
Was thinking of ordering an M1a from Springfield through Davidson's - bit of a rip off but at least I get what I want.
Looks like a mini-14 is legal with a straight stock. Also available through Davidson's - not a Ruger fam though.
de
member
Good gosh, reading all this about new jersy gun law is depressing. Thank you Texas for not causing me to have ignore dictatorship like gun laws. Lautenburg and all those other clowns need to be ran out of town on a rail. Uh! Just don't run them south. Ok?
PaladinX13
Member
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2002
- Messages
- 747
Highland Ranger, my shooting buddy has that exact model purchased legally in NJ... of course, you probably should have a place to shoot it before you take the plunge, unless you want an expensive dust collector.
????? Colt Sporter's ( AR clones ) have been legal since 1996. M1A's too without the bayonet lug. All AR15 clones are NJ legal as long as they are in "post ban" configuration. The receiver cannot be stamped AR15 however the Bushmaster desigination , XM15 is perfectly legal as well as all the other's that are not marked AR15.
"Post ban" configuration's mean no bayonet lug, no flashiders, and no telescoping/ folding stocks. Own one in that configuration and you good to go.
Best way to buy either an M1A or AR15 clone is to find one on the net and have a FFL transfer it to you. My guy charges $25.00 for the transfer and $15.00 for the NICS check. If you buy out of state there is no sales tax either.
Here are a few of mine.
"Post ban" configuration's mean no bayonet lug, no flashiders, and no telescoping/ folding stocks. Own one in that configuration and you good to go.
Best way to buy either an M1A or AR15 clone is to find one on the net and have a FFL transfer it to you. My guy charges $25.00 for the transfer and $15.00 for the NICS check. If you buy out of state there is no sales tax either.
Here are a few of mine.
Highland Ranger
Member
I'm looking at Nappen II published in 2000. And the wording is pretty vague.
I've seen them at the range, so I agree - must be legal in some form.
Are there any stores in Jersey I can go in and buy one?
I assume that's the best way to stay out of trouble.
I've seen them at the range, so I agree - must be legal in some form.
Are there any stores in Jersey I can go in and buy one?
I assume that's the best way to stay out of trouble.
Nappen won State vs. Merrill back in 1996 thus opening the door to own "clone" rifles in post ban configuration. Basically , if a person possesses a lawfully mfg., post 1994 production gun and it is not specifically named on the NJAWB's laundry list of "assault firearms" , the gun is not an assault firearm under NJ law.
Most gun shops in NJ will carry them. Harry's Army/ Navy in Robbinsville, The Sportsman Center in Bordentown have them but you will pay retail.
My suggestion is to buy a stripped lower and built it yourself. Many dealers will build you a NJ legal upper. Or go to a show in PA. and buy a complete lower and order an upper. You can do this for less than $700.00. Why pay retail or someone's rent?
Most gun shops in NJ will carry them. Harry's Army/ Navy in Robbinsville, The Sportsman Center in Bordentown have them but you will pay retail.
My suggestion is to buy a stripped lower and built it yourself. Many dealers will build you a NJ legal upper. Or go to a show in PA. and buy a complete lower and order an upper. You can do this for less than $700.00. Why pay retail or someone's rent?
Highland Ranger
Member
Not sure I am comfortable enough with the pieces to put one together . . . . .
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