Assault Weapons Ban Legal?

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Ben86

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Considering the ruling of D.C. v. Heller, which calls D.C.'s ban of handguns a violation of the Second Amendment, how can a proposed "assault weapons" ban be legal?

Link to story: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=6960824&page=1

It seems to me that this broad banning of a particular type of firearm would also be considered a violation of the 2A. Am I wrong?
 
it seems that way, but until the SCOTUS rules saying that it IS that way, then there isn't much legal hassle to impede anyone from passing one. Heller only applied to handguns, so an AWB could still pass as a 'reasonable restriction'.
 
the "high ups" are under the impression that ASSAULT weapons are the source of some high majority of gun crimes and have convinced much of the public (non gunowners) to buy into that point of view... the fear is that these uneducated people (as far as firearms go) will outnumber those who oppose such a law. even then, only the sales would be affected there is little to no chance of anyone coming to collect previously purchased "assault" weapons. much like the clinton high cap ban... there will be no collection... too dangerous for everyone involved...
 
Well, according to Alan Gura (lead counsel for DC Heller) and Robert Levy (chairman of CATO institute, organized and bankrolled DC Heller), an AWB would not pass legal muster under the Heller ruling and they would fight that in court.
 
For now, Heller only applies to handguns in the District of Columbia.

But yes, under the reasoning in Heller, a Return of AWB would be un-Constitutional. And probably so eventually held, depending on whether anyone other than Ruth Bader-Meinhof punches off SCOTUS during the Obamanation.
 
But yes, under the reasoning in Heller, a Return of AWB would be un-Constitutional.

Well, maybe. You might argue based on Heller that you cannot ban assault weapons, because they are in common usage.

However, there is nothing in Heller that would make it illegal to ban flash hiders, bayonet lugs, collapsible stocks, and other cosmetic features on guns.
 
However, there is nothing in Heller that would make it illegal to ban flash hiders, bayonet lugs, collapsible stocks, and other cosmetic features on guns.

I don't know how much water that holds. If these are common features used on common weapons, I think that they derivatively qualify under the in common use test.

BUT, it's the law, and you never know what side will prevail. We shall see.
 
I'd be curious to know what the NRA is preparing to fight this in the future.

It seems to me that the common use arguement is pretty solid. What made banning semi-auto handguns illegal should apply to semi-auto rifles as well. Not to mention the fact that only the criminals would get them after the ban. But for people that have blind faith in the law that arguement does little to persuade.
 
[1] There is ample judicial precedent for the proposition that there may be limited regulation of a Constitutionally protected right, subject to some fairly narrow and strict standards. Whether an AWB could pass muster under those standards remains to be seen.

[2] But, if an AWB is enacted and signed, it will the law unless and until a court tosses it out.
 
I don't find the 86 hughs amendment to be legal as well, but it is law. what can you do. The courts never ruled on it and Regan signed it.
 
Isn't it ironic that without the new administration coming to power, the recent/current buying spree would not have occurred - possibly meaning that the "market share" of military patterned semi auto rifles and associated mags wouldn't be high enough to pass the "in common civilian use" test?

But it all depends on who's on the bench at the time it gets to the court...logic simply isn't guaranteed.
 
The last AWB didn't pass on its own. It was inserted into the Clinton Crime Bill. This one wouldn't pass alone either. Keep watching other bill to see if an AWB has been snuck into one of them.
 
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However, there is nothing in Heller that would make it illegal to ban flash hiders, bayonet lugs, collapsible stocks, and other cosmetic features on guns.

I contest that... a collapsible stock may not mere a "cosmetic" feature. It allows a weapon to be easily tailored to an individual- like someone who is handicapped or wheel-chair bound. The same argument may even be made for a folding stock weapon. A flash hider prevents you from being blinded by the flash; I call that a safety feature. Bayonet lugs... well, you could always argue that a gun with a bayonet attached is more difficult for someone to grab, as they would probably grab the blade instead of the barrel. (Think the CZ pistol bayonet- something that we all laugh at, but may just save those little bayonet lugs when we argue against the next AWB).
 
Prince Yamato said:
...a collapsible stock may not mere a "cosmetic" feature. It allows a weapon to be easily tailored to an individual- like someone who is handicapped or wheel-chair bound. The same argument may even be made for a folding stock weapon. A flash hider prevents you from being blinded by the flash; I call that a safety feature. Bayonet lugs... well, you could always argue that a gun with a bayonet attached is more difficult for someone to grab, as they would probably grab the blade instead of the barrel...
Fine, if you've got a few million dollars sitting around, take it to court and see what they say. See if the government can make a case that such restrictions serve a compelling state interest. But in the final analysis, what you think or I think or the rest of the people on this board think doesn't matter. What does matter is what you can sell to a court.

What a court thinks affects the lives and property of real people in real life. With what you think and $2 you can get a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
 
Well, according to Alan Gura (lead counsel for DC Heller) and Robert Levy (chairman of CATO institute, organized and bankrolled DC Heller), an AWB would not pass legal muster under the Heller ruling and they would fight that in court.

That's not good news.

What's their reasoning for an AWB being allowable under Heller?
 
Lickety, you are misreading. The AWB would not pass legal muster means it would not be legal. But perhaps my writing was unclear and I apologize.

Let me correct:
Well, according to Alan Gura (lead counsel for DC Heller) and Robert Levy (chairman of CATO institute, organized and bankrolled DC Heller), an AWB would not pass legal muster under the Heller ruling and if one were passed, they would fight it in court.
 
The last AWB didn't pass on its own. It was inserted into the Clinton Crime Bill. This one wouldn't pass alone either. Keep watching other bill to see if an AWB has been snuck into one of them.

Zactly. That's how them congress critters get controversial bill passed. They stick it in another bill such as the "Ma's Apple Pie" bill, and then when you vote against it because of the AWB that they tucked in it, they accuse you of hating Ma. Things aren't always as they seem in DC.

Don
 
The Heller decision's "weak point" is the infamous "Laundry List" of prohibitions which are presumptively valid under this decision's dicta...

"Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons."


The implication is that, on its face and with a liberal reading, an AWB would pass muster presumptively. It's almost 90% certain to survive a challenge, even under a Miller Test due to the present composition of the Court.

The further implication, though not expressly stated, is that the test standard is that of a Rational Basis (which, really, is no test at all)... meaning the Government need only have a rational excuse (not one empirically proven, not the best excuse, not a comprehensive excuse, etc.) to have a constitutionally valid law. If the Court can be pushed to state that the test is something higher, that shifts the burden onto the Government to have an empirical or closely tailored basis for their measures, then you'll have a better chance of seeing something like an AWB struck down.

Since the Court didn't get to the issue here, it may be quite a long while before they decide to take it on. They might not be expressly asking for empirical data, but they might be seeing how things shake out in a practical sense first... running the clock on public opinion such that the next time the issue comes around, American is less reticent to part with their guns.

So the task is the same... "convert" and mobilize your friends and neighbors to be a substantial faction if not a plurality/majority... rather than pin our hopes on a Court to oppose the general will of the country (if most people want gun control in this country- the fault lies with us as passive owners, not with a Court who's jurisprudence may include accommodations for proposals with public mandates).
 
However, there is nothing in Heller that would make it illegal to ban flash hiders, bayonet lugs, collapsible stocks, and other cosmetic features on guns.
I believe that this is true. The Heller decision made it clear that you cannot ban a class or category of weapon. It does not say that you can not ban specific evil features, so long as you can argue that the class itself is still available.
 
Well, that depends on who is sitting on the SCOTUS doesn't it. Heller was a 5-4 victory for the 2A. It could have easily been a 5-4 loss.

There is much speculation that Heller couldn't go any further in the opinion on the ruling of M16s (there is a short blurb that they 'may' be covered), without jepardizing that swing vote and a total 5-4 loss.

Let's not forget this is the same court that just recently said that Lautenberg is Constitutional by a 7-2 vote for the ban of guns and ammo possession by misdemeanor domestic violence 'criminals' and hinted that it could be expanded to any battery!!!! :what:

So, it's a touchy subject, and the replacement justices are critically important. Guess who gets to replace them?
 
Well this part of Heller:
Respondent conceded at oral argument that he does not “have a problem with . . . licensing” and that the District’s law is permissible so long as it is “not enforced in an arbitrary and capricious manner.” Tr. of Oral Arg. 74–75. We therefore assume that petitioners’ issuance of a license will satisfy respondent’s prayer for relief and do not address the licensing requirement.
…might be applied to AWB II. Perhaps it could be argued successfully banning cosmetic features that do not affect the operations on a firearm, nor make it more dangerous, nor affect how suitable it would be for committing a crime is “arbitrary and capricious” and therefore not permissible. Although this might argument might open the door for a “Rational Basis” for laws limiting magazine capacity (not a factual or correct bias but a legalese rational one.)

But as others have said above, there is no guessing what arguments the Supremes will go for.
 
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