ATF brace rule is out

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Can you just remove the brace and leave the buffer tube bare. I know some braces will fit on a standard buffer tube and some that use a pistol tube. It'd be my guess that the type that can readily accept a Carbine stock will be considered an "SBR"???

I think I will just be permantly attaching long muzzle devices.....

Correct, removing the brace is one option for dealing with a braced pistol/unregistered SBR.

See No 6 under "Compliance Options" here: https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/faqfinalrule2021r-08f-correctedpdf/download

And for those thinking that they will be able to registered rifles or NON braced pistols as SBR's for free. I suggest you read Box 1c on the ATF Form 1. I posted a photo and link to the Form 1 in the thread currently going in Legal. It is post #65

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...o-effect-12-28-22.912842/page-3#post-12520106
 
You can transfer an NFA item to a survivor tax-free on a Form 5. The rest of your statement is the general drawback of an SBR/SBS.
 
I’m registering 4. A pair of contenders and a pair of ARs. All have been built as pistols, and used as braced guns. Pretty sure I have photos of all of them. Maybe.

further thought… I’m not so sure I want to engrave my contenders. And the headache of notifying of leaving the state is a bit much. I may reconsider. I may only do 1 of each. Definitely doing 1 of each, but may do 2. 1 registered lower is a good host for what I will do with each platform so…
 
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I’m registering 4. A pair of contenders and a pair of ARs. All have been built as pistols, and used as braced guns. Pretty sure I have photos of all of them. Maybe.

Also take photos right before you start the tax exempt Form 1 so you can submit the photos with the Form 1. You will need a passport photo of yourself along with finger prints too.
 
How will that be proved. An AR is so easy to assembly. You can could covert a lower from an rifle to a braced pistol lower in seconds.
I was stating what the rule is. People can, of course, choose to break it, just like any other law or regulation.
 
The court will destroy this rule along with the bump stock rule and other recent rulings.
Will they though? There's a big difference between bump stocks and braces. Bump stocks very clearly do not meet the definition of a machine gun. Braces, on the other hand, are clearly designed and the vast majority of the time have been used as a stock. The most shocking thing about all of this is that the ATF approved them to begin with.
 
So a pistol was purchased legally as a pistol 4473, brace is purchased with the approval of the ATF. Now they can change their mind and decide it must be registered and they shall declare amnesty even though no laws were broken!:uhoh:

Unfortunately that is exactly what they have done. Now to see how the lawsuits will play out and how quickly this makes it through the court system.
 
Is there a snowballs chance that an organization or group will file suit and get some kind of stay or whatever on this "ruling" and get all this nonsense tossed in the trash can?
 
Hell, it might make sense for - some of us - to register some of our current AR’s which are “braced pistols” as “SBR’s” for free…

And by “some of us” I might mean “all of us,” and by “some of our current AR’s” I might mean “all of our AR’s.”

Kinda wish I had more lowers on hand, but getting >$4000 in tax stamps for free sure sounds good to me!

Exactly my thoughts, I will be registering all my serialized lowers and will probably buy a couple extra to register just because.

Yep the brace is going away one way or another, might as well get a free SBR out of the deal.

The legal challenges are still going to be interesting legally in light of Bruen, the potential reversal on bump stocks, and similar.

Yeah this will be battled out in court for years to come, but I for one will be getting my free stamps as soon as they open the registration.
 
glad all of you are so compliant. I will not do anything. The court will destroy this rule along with the bump stock rule and other recent rulings.
I am not wasting any time, effort or money on this.

If you wanted to be non compliant with unconstitutional rules and laws, then you wouldn't have a brace to begin with, and you have some machining to do and another hole to drill.
 
glad all of you are so compliant. I will not do anything. The court will destroy this rule along with the bump stock rule and other recent rulings.
I am not wasting any time, effort or money on this.
I know there are tons of people with the same attitude. They won't change a damn thing or bat an eye and will just keep their braced pistols as they are. I wish everyone would follow suit and make this completely unenforceable or just a logistical nightmare altogether....

I also know there are going to be tons of people who will be completely ignorant of any new ruling, bought their braced AR from a shop, stuck it in a closet, don't visit forums or follow gun stuff and they will be the most unfortunate among us because they just don't know about the new rule.
 
Might as well send in for the stamp. NFA SBR’s can always be returned to title 1 status at any time and resold as such, or transported out of state as such. There is no obligation to remain in SBR form forever. Building as a pistol first ensures the lower can always go back to pistol form, applying for a FREE NFA stamp to SBR it lets you always go SBR, and of course, it’s always free to go straight up rifle…

Not everyone wants to do the paperwork, which takes a few minutes to fill out, and not everyone wants to mark lowers, which takes a few seconds on a fiber laser, and not everyone CAN pass the background check, but damn, if they’re handing out stamps like skittles, I’m getting mine…
Indeed.
 
Well any other tax stamps you put in for, we won't be seeing those for a while.

I encourage everyone to put a lawyer on retainer and put in for an amnesty sbr to show how "common use" these things are.
If everyone has them and only the usual suspects are doing crime with them, then there's no reason to regulate them so maniacally.
 
To be honest I am glad to be done with the ambiguity. A pistol brace is the equivalent of the "I'm not touching you!" game that kids play where they purposefully annoy someone but don't actually touch them. At this point I am not going to pretend anymore that I don't know what a brace is really for. A pistol brace makes a really crappy buttstock and I am not going to cling to it. I believe the NFA should be repealed and was unconstitutional from the beginning, so I'm not thrilled about having to file applications with the government to own something that is none of their business, but as long as I don't have to pay for it, its a hurdle I'm willing to jump to get rid of the braces. I'm sure not going to prison over keeping a kak brace that I never wanted to begin with. I'll continue to save my non compliance for other topics which I won't discuss. It will be interesting to see where the ensuing legal battles go and see if we can get a ruling on whether or not it was ever constitutional to regulate barrel length at all. That is the battle I am really interested in.
 
Then you fall under the restrictions of an SBR. Can’t take out of state unless you notify ATF. Have to notify ATF if you move and also notify Sheriff of new county of residence. Can’t will it to your surviving spouse or sibling or sell it.
My gateway nfa item was a SBS. The only time I filled out the form when I moved from Virginia to NM. Moved a couple of times since then never bothered to send it in. Have added over a dozen tax stamp since then. I think if they wanted me they could find me.
 
To be honest I am glad to be done with the ambiguity. A pistol brace is the equivalent of the "I'm not touching you!" game that kids play where they purposefully annoy someone but don't actually touch them. At this point I am not going to pretend anymore that I don't know what a brace is really for. A pistol brace makes a really crappy buttstock and I am not going to cling to it. I believe the NFA should be repealed and was unconstitutional from the beginning, so I'm not thrilled about having to file applications with the government to own something that is none of their business, but as long as I don't have to pay for it, its a hurdle I'm willing to jump to get rid of the braces. I'm sure not going to prison over keeping a kak brace that I never wanted to begin with. I'll continue to save my non compliance for other topics which I won't discuss. It will be interesting to see where the ensuing legal battles go and see if we can get a ruling on whether or not it was ever constitutional to regulate barrel length at all. That is the battle I am really interested in.
Yeah it really is. With the grown up version having being shot to death by revenuers being one of the outcomes.
There's no other logical explanation then to cause big trouble for law abiding gun owners.
 
Then you fall under the restrictions of an SBR. Can’t take out of state unless you notify ATF. Have to notify ATF if you move and also notify Sheriff of new county of residence. Can’t will it to your surviving spouse or sibling or sell it.

It’s not that complicated… Trusts and mechanical instructions are pretty simple for survivorship, and never forget (as I stated directly above), an NFA SBR can be converted back to a Title 1 configuration at any time, and no longer has any burden of notification for transport.

It’s really not so complicated, some folks just want to pretend simple rules, aren’t.
 
I am just waiting for some easy "step-by-step" instructions to go up. Then, like so many others, I have some ARs lowers that were assembled as Braced pistols in the past, and my CZ Scorpion to register.

I am glad they are waiving the tax on the stamp. However, once these things are SBRs', they will get a real stock instead of a silly brace.
 
.....

Therefore if ATF claims it doesn't regulate accessories, then how can it order an owner to dispose of, or alter, a brace?

It can't, because it isn't empowered to regulate accessories.
Whatever you do, don't read either link in the OP.;)
If you did, you would know that while ATF doesn't regulate accessories, they sure as heck regulate firearms, including NFA firearms. This regulation shows how they determine if the attachment of a stabilizing brace actually is creating a short barreled rifle. WHEN ATTACHED that brace may create a short barreled rifle.
 
I've read through the first 200 pages of the 300 page document, and then skipped to the bottom. I will back and read the rest later, but here is the important part to be concerned with.

V. Final Rule

A. Definition of “Rifle” The rule provides an amendment to the definition of “rifle” in §§ 478.11 and 479.11. In issuing this final rule, the Department has revised the proposed regulatory text in the NPRM to account for the comments received. The rule does not adopt the Worksheet 4999 as proposed in the NPRM. The rule does, however, adopt from the NPRM and proposed Worksheet 4999 several of the objective design features that indicate a firearm is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and incorporates those features into the definition of “rifle.” The final regulatory text for the definition of “rifle” reflects the best interpretation of the relevant statutory provisions. All previous ATF classifications involving “stabilizing brace” attachments for firearms are superseded as of [INSERT DATE OF PUBLICATION IN THE FEDERAL REGISTER]. As such, they are no longer valid or authoritative, and cannot be relied upon. However, firearms with such attachments may be submitted to ATF for reclassification.

This final rule’s amended definition of “rifle” clarifies that the term “designed, redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder” includes a weapon that is equipped with an accessory, component, or other rearward attachment (e.g., a “stabilizing brace”) that provides surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder, provided that other factors, as listed in the rule, indicate that the weapon is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder. These other factors are:

(i) whether the weapon has a weight or length consistent with the weight or length of similarly designed rifles;

(ii) whether the weapon has a length of pull, measured from the center of the trigger to the center of the shoulder stock or other rearward accessory, component or attachment (including an adjustable or telescoping attachment with the ability to lock into various positions along a buffer tube, receiver extension, or other attachment method) that is consistent with similarly designed rifles;

(iii) whether the weapon is equipped with sights or a scope with eye relief that require the weapon to be fired from the shoulder in order to be used as designed;

(iv) whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, or any other accessory, component, or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations;

(v) the manufacturer’s direct and indirect marketing and promotional materials indicating the intended use of the weapon; and

(vi) information demonstrating the likely use of the weapon in the general community.

B. Options for Affected Persons Persons in possession of short-barreled rifles equipped with a “stabilizing brace” device have until [INSERT DATE 120 DAYS AFTER DATE OF PUBLICATION IN THE FEDERAL REGISTER] to come into compliance with the NFA’s requirements.

The options are as follows:

Current Unlicensed Possessors 270 (this is the section relevent to end users that are not FFL license holders, there is another section for FFL's.)

1. Remove the short barrel and attach a 16-inch or longer rifled barrel to the firearm, thus removing it from the scope of the NFA.

2. Submit through the eForms system an Application to Make and Register a Firearm, ATF Form 1 (“E-Form 1”) by [INSERT DATE 120 DAYS AFTER DATE OF PUBLICATION IN THE FEDERAL REGISTER]. 174 The possessor may adopt the markings on the firearm for purposes of the E-Form 1 if the firearm is marked in accordance with 27 CFR 478.92 and 479.102. If the firearm does not have the markings under 27 CFR 478.92 and 479.102, then the individual must mark the firearm as required. Proof of submission of the E-Form 1 should be maintained by all possessors. To transfer an affected firearm to another individual after the date this rule is published, it must be registered in the NFRTR, and the individual must submit and receive approval on an Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of Firearm, ATF Form 4; otherwise, the transfer is a violation of the NFA. See 26 U.S.C. 5861(e).

3. Permanently remove and dispose of, or alter, the “stabilizing brace” such that it cannot be reattached, thereby removing the weapon from regulation as a “firearm” under the NFA. The Department recognizes that the removal of a “stabilizing brace” from a firearm that was originally received as a “short-barreled rifle” results in the production of a “weapon made from a rifle,” as defined by the NFA. However, the Department in its enforcement discretion will allow persons to reconfigure the firearm to a pistol by [INSERT DATE 120 DAYS AFTER DATE OF PUBLICATION IN THE FEDERAL REGISTER] and will not require the registration of these firearms as a “weapon made from a rifle.” 174 ATF strongly advises that affectedparties use the eFormssystem to lessen the administrative burden in registering firearms affected by this rule. 271

4. Turn the firearm into your local ATF office.

5. Destroy the firearm. ATF will publish information regarding proper destruction on its website, www.atf.gov.
 
Is there a snowballs chance that an organization or group will file suit and get some kind of stay or whatever on this "ruling" and get all this nonsense tossed in the trash can?
Several have already started.
We each need to talk to all of out organizations particularly the local ones, to all go out after this.

"We" only need the one "win."

That's why "we" do not want to have "one big suit" were that one to fail, it sinks the whole boat.
 
Then you fall under the restrictions of an SBR.
True.


Can’t take out of state unless you notify ATF.
True, but only if its in SBR configuration.


Have to notify ATF if you move
False. You only have to notify ATF if you are moving interstate. They ASK that you notify them of in state change of address, but its not required.


and also notify Sheriff of new county of residence.
False.


Can’t will it to your surviving spouse or sibling or sell it.
False, false and false.

Seriously, you need to read some NFA regs.
 
Worst off people in this are FFL with braced inventory.
Under the new rule, all that inventory needs to be pulled from the shelves and stored securely, and Form 3 E-file (every reference in the new document specifically states e-file) every one of them.

The contention ATFE appears to be pushing here is that all "braced pistols" have, always, been illegal SBR (ignore all previous Letters to the contrary).
Which, they are alleging, is how they can "regulate an accessory" without having that ability under APA.

There's rather an open question about whether or not ATFE will change their minds, later, and decide "once an SBR, always an SBR." Do they have that authority? Dunno. Has that ever stopped them before?

On the "free" Form 1, please consider the following.
1. There are somewhere between 10 and 40 million "braced pistols" out there. That's between US$20 and US$80 billion in taxes. And, as a tax collecting organization, ATFE may not have the ability to not collect taxes which are codified under Law. So, they may go, "Uh guys, we promised these were 'free' but we can't send you a US$200 stamp until we collect the US$200 . . . "
2. Even as e-forms, it's still adding between 10 and 40 million new ones into the system, over existing Forms. ATFE has not added any new Examiners. There are long-standing complaints about "work load" within ATFE. Which suggests that they will impose even more limits on how many Forms can be submitted. (The Rule already specifies that you can only Form 1 "braced pistols" that existed on or before Friday [or whatever the publication date winds up being], and, like as not, they will insist you prove your date of ownership.)

Note that those living in a "no NFA" and/or "no SBR" State are hosed by this. They are losing their braces. All the inventory on store shelves just became worthless. The "taking" here beggars imagination.

While on that topic, just because ATFE is allowing 120 days, and a presumption of 'legality' as long as you file the Form 1 in the next two months, does not mean your State or Local LE will agree to that. Especially as ATFE has changed the "rifle" definition so that all braced pistols are now, and always have been SBR.

This thing is a mess. It's going to be a mess, unless/until a Court says "No, this is nonsense!"
 
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