Atf inspection

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crossrhodes

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What is a routine inspection for an FFL home business? Today, Aug 4Th, in the Orleans County Record, Vermont, there is an article about the ATF taking the firearms and having them sealed from the public and the media until the inventory was complete. The ATF stated that the owner Phil Ciotti, was not suspected, detained or arrested and it was routine to confiscated the firearms until the inventory was completed. Is this routine. Title of the article was strange also " ATF Take Guns From Former Police Officer ".
Any one shine any light on this.
 
Well, I'm not an FFL holder but I can tell you with 100% certainty that that is NOT a routine inspection. The ATF has no right to confiscate a dealer's inventory during a routine inspection. Sounds like Mr. Ciotti has been up to something he shouldn't have been, and is now paying the price.

ETA: From what I do know, a routine inspection usually amounts to nothing more than an agent coming in and checking to make sure that the dealer has the proper signage up, has no paperwork anomalies, and all the inventory is accounted for in the necessary ways.
 
Definitely not a routine inspection, although it may have started as one. Something else is going on.
 
Guilty until proven innocent?

Sounds like Mr. Ciotti has been up to something he shouldn't have been, and is now paying the price.
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He's obviously guilty, or else they wouldn't be investigating?
 
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ATF

Thanks for the replies Gents. Yep. They had a federal search warrant and had to rent a Ryder truck to remove the large amount, 500 plus, of firearms and ammunition. We have a very small firearms repair shop (FFL holder) and we are aware of the inspections and requirements but we have not been inspected yet and it scared us a little think that was a routine inspection. We do repairs only and don't keep an inventory of firearms on hand. The only firearms we have on the premises are the customers for repair.
I have to mention that he has a home business not a store front. I would think that 500 plus firearms would be a little excessive.
 
I would think that 500 plus firearms would be a little excessive.
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Why? If he's able to do enough business to require such a large inventory, good for him. We should all be so lucky in business.

Now, his inventory may have been that large due to illegal activity, but if that's the case, it's the illegal activity that's the problem, IMHO. Not the amount of guns on hand.
 
I would think that 500 plus firearms would be a little excessive
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Good grief...there are shops around here with six times that many in stock. (And that one is just in a guy's basement!)

No, this "routine investigation" is just a code word for "we're not going to say anything until we file charges."

Joe Friday used to say the same thing on every episode of Dragnet. :D They'd be searching for some guy suspected of 30 counts of arson, multiple murders, and jaywalking but they'd tell his mom, neighbors, and roommate, "Just a routine investigation, ma'am."

I think the investigators believe, "We're not telling you so stop asking," is rude.
 
He's obviously guilty, or else they wouldn't be investigating?
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Generally speaking, when ATF pulls up with U-Haul trucks to confiscate inventory the guy is guilty as hell. That isn't a first inspection or some botched paperwork. That's criminal activity.
 
Generally speaking, when ATF pulls up with U-Haul trucks to confiscate inventory the guy is guilty as hell. That isn't a first inspection or some botched paperwork. That's criminal activity.
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Well... he will get his day in court. Until then, he isn't "guilty." However, the point here is very valid. When the ATF (or the SEC, or the EPA, or whomever is showing up with warrants) takes measures this extreme, they are seizing evidence for a very serious set of charges against the owner.

"Routine Investigation" makes it sound like "nothing to see here, move along." It is nothing of the sort.
 
crossrhodes said:
Thanks for the replies Gents. Yep. They had a federal search warrant and had to rent a Ryder truck to remove the large amount, 500 plus, of firearms and ammunition. We have a very small firearms repair shop (FFL holder) and we are aware of the inspections and requirements but we have not been inspected yet and it scared us a little think that was a routine inspection. We do repairs only and don't keep an inventory of firearms on hand. The only firearms we have on the premises are the customers for repair.
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You should have those customer's firearms listed in your "bound book" and the entries should agree with the firearms on hand.
 
Sold to felons

Found out he was allegedly selling to felons with his partner acting as the straw guy.
I made the comment about 500 firearms being excessive in error because I didn't describe the location in my statement. To keep it short I'll just say that the firearms were not secured nor did he have any type of alarm system.
Mostly in closets, laundry baskets, sea-bags and cardboard boxes. If you don't have room to properly secure/store them then any amount is excessive.
Yes EOD we do keep a bound book....to the "T"
 
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Don't you just hate it when you read the news, and still don't know what the story is?

A point I found interesting is at the bottom of the article. While they were on or about their occasions, the Feds called in the local bomb squad expert. It doesn't really say what for, but Air Force ordnance is hinted at. Sheesh!
 
but Air Force ordnance is hinted at. Sheesh!
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Yes, I noticed that. However, remember that there are lots of mil surplus bits and pieces that are completely inert (or not even ordinance) which might not be either easily identified, or clearly still inert, which an investigating ATF officer might run across. Generally, they'll call in someone with the experience to make sure they're not about to level themselves, the house, or the city block.

There was an antique shop I loved as a kid that had an enormous WWII fighter plane auxiliary fuel drop tank strapped to one of the front porch posts. It looked for all the world like a bomb of the sort Wile E. Coyote would have tossed at the Road Runner. But it had never been a weapon of any sort, and if I could have ever scraped up the cash, I could have carried the thing home and hung it from my ceiling.

You can certainly expect that the ATF would much rather "unnecessarily" call in an EOD specialist to cart that thing off than risk a guess that they weren't about to make the evening news in a really big way.

And sometimes, as Dr. Freud would say, "a cigar is just a cigar." I knew a lovable old fellow who lived in a state-funded senior center for the last couple decades of his life. Ex-military guy who loved shooting, especially BIG booming guns, and always had a goofy grin for every one of his pals. When he passed away, his heirs discovered that one of his prize treasures was a very live, very old, grenade.

You just never know. Eventually there will be charges filed and then we can all find out what the big deal is.
 
Found out he was allegedly selling to felons with his partner acting as the straw guy.
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Case made. When ATF shows up with trucks and seizes merchandise they have pretty good evidence of serious wrong-doing.
 
Every thing is logged

Hey EOD, We don't have any firearms for sale if that's what you mean by inventory but we do have a few receivers on hand for replacement parts. But we do log in every thing that comes in for repairs, even muzzle loaders or walk in repairs that are less then 24 hours. We have redundant alarm systems too and take extra measures because we are in the sticks and don't want to be to soft of a target. Lets face it. If you have anything to do with firearms you have the "less then stellar" citizens always looking at you.
 
Defaced

I also saw information that they seized several firearms that had been defaced....sounds like perhaps some serial numbers were removed or obscured in some way.....

Clearly there's a lot more going on than a routine inspection...
 
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