AUG's; Steyr vs. Microtech

[7.62mm.ak47]

So what's the deal here guys? Steyr doesn't import anymore what what I hear so Microtech took over the AUG design and improved it. Does anyone know how the American made AUG's perform? Also I only see the 16" barrel on the Microtech. Would that effect accuracy very much compared to the original design?

 

[rcmodel]

All Steyr factory green AUG's came with 20" barrels.

All factory black AUG's came with 16" barrels.

Barrel length should have no effect on mechanical accuracy.
What it effects is muzzle velocity and trajectory.

It could only effect accuracy due to a shorter iron sight radus, which wouldn't apply to an optic sighted AUG.

You would lose about 100-200 FPS depending on ammo, with the shorter barrel.

If you notice, 16" AR-15's are the overwhelming choice for all-around use in that platform.

The GI issue M4 carbine has a 14.4" barrel.

rc

 

[Maverick223]

FWIW, I would take the longer barrel for a .223Rem bullpup. The difference in length is negligible but worthwhile for the better ballistics that it affords. My M17 has a 21.5in. bbl and balances perfectly, the additional barrel length helps your long range trajectory and energy on target. It is shorter than an M4 with the stock extended (about the length of a 16in. carbine collapsed), and balances much better.

If you were going for a different chambering (such as is offered by MSAR) then the bbl length would be less of a concern. The proposed new cartridge offerings include: 6.8SPC, 7.62x39mm, 5.45x39.5mm, 9mmParabellum, .40S&W, and .45ACP. I am strongly considering a carbine in .45ACP, and 16in. is more than sufficient (the OAL is 26.5in. IIRC).

Steyr is probably a better rifle, but not worth the additional cash IMO. MSAR has excellent CS so if you are one of the unfortunate few that encounters a problem, you can rest assured that you will be taken care of. The way a company treats its clientèle means a great deal to me; therefore, unless I had to use the carbine in dire circumstances (warfare, et al), I wouldn't hesitate to buy the MSAR instead.

 

[Girodin]

I've been very happy with my MSAR clone. I'm not sure what an actual steyr could offer to be worth the extra money. Perhaps for some the name alone is worth that but not to me.

 

[Maverick223]

I'm not sure what an actual steyr could offer to be worth the extra money.

More widespread interchangeability of parts and a platform that has been proven for a much longer period of time (and has seen military service). Both are inconsequential for me, because I am not planning to use it in combat, the MSAR is also robust from what I have seen, and most importantly if something breaks they have excellent customer service (undoubtedly superior to Steyr).

 

[Cosmik de Bris]

All Steyr factory green AUG's came with 20" barrels.

All factory black AUG's came with 16" barrels.

Barrel length should have no effect on mechanical accuracy.
What it effects is muzzle velocity and trajectory.

It could only effect accuracy due to a shorter iron sight radus, which wouldn't apply to an optic sighted AUG.

You would lose about 100-200 FPS depending on ammo, with the shorter barrel.

If you notice, 16" AR-15's are the overwhelming choice for all-around use in that platform.

The GI issue M4 carbine has a 14.4" barrel.

rc

Hi rc, that may be true in the USA but I have an Austrian made black factory AUG with a 20" barrel.

 

[7.62mm.ak47]

unless I had to use the carbine in dire circumstances (warfare, et al), I wouldn't hesitate to buy the MSAR instead.

I know a brand name has a lot to do with how people purchase stuff but would Steyr really be that much better? I've actually heard on other forums that Microtech improved upon the original design. Not sure if that's true or not though.

 

[Maverick223]

I know a brand name has a lot to do with how people purchase stuff but would Steyr really be that much better?

don't actually know that it is better (never been able to break either) but the Steyr is the proven design, so that holds some merit if used for tasks where reliability is paramount...but, like I have said, the MSAR is more than adequate for my uses (to include duty as a home defense carbine if called upon) and I can't stress enough how phenomenal the customer service (and staff in general) is, so i'll spend just as much as a bona fide AUG, but have an MSAR outfitted with good optics and accessories.

 

[stiletto raggio]

Steyr could give a damn about the American civilian market. MSAR exists because Steyr refused to meet the demand for the AUG for six years after the AWB sunset. Microtech will get my money on principle.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Steyr could give a damn about the American civilian market.

And still better in that respect than HK

 

[boricua9mm]

I own a 4th gen MSAR and it has been 100% for me. I prefer the 16" barrel, as it further exploits the benefits of compactness. I no longer feel a void/need for an SBR. The rifle is extremely well made and it is a great product improved AUG. I find it funny that people would even mention parts interchangeability, seeing as Microtech has far more rifles out there than the numbers of pre-Ban and Sabre AUGs combined.

That being said, you should know that MSAR and Microtech Knives really are one in the same. There was a fellow who helped give MSAR a good reputation for customer service. He is no longer with MSAR. Whether or not the new MSAR folks will step up to fill his shoes remains to be seen. Ask anyone who owns Microtech knives what they think about the Marfione family. You might be surprised what you hear.

In my opinion (based on my experience of owning both their rifle and several of their knives), I would hold off on buying one until they can reestablish a reputation for being devoted to customer relations. As of right now, this is still a big unknown.

 

[nwilliams]

I have a 20in MSAR and at one time I owned the 16in. I sold the 16in version that I had and regretted it ever since. However I was lucky because I sold my first MSAR just prior to the dramatic price plunge in the Stg.556's when the E4's hit the market. I think I paid almost $2k for my first MSAR with a rail and 16in barrel and I lucked out and got most of my money back on it when I sold it. I got my new MSAR with the 20in barrel and optical sight for $1350 brand new a few months later.

I've seen brand new Stg.556's selling for around $1k now and that alone is a good enough reason to own one in my book! For around a grand you can get a heck of a nice bullpup rifle that's even better (IMO) than the Steyr version, plus it's made in the USA and backed by MSAR's reputation for top notch customer service.

Here's mine.....

 

[Girodin]

widespread interchangeability of parts

That certainly is an advantage but not one that is worth over $1000 more to me personally. I would rather just buy two MSRA rifles and have a spare everything.

 

[Maverick223]

In my opinion (based on my experience of owning both their rifle and several of their knives), I would hold off on buying one until they can reestablish a reputation for being devoted to customer relations. As of right now, this is still a big unknown.

I didn't realize things had changed...hate to hear that, was a very good selling point for me.

That certainly is an advantage but not one that is worth over $1000 more to me personally. I would rather just buy two MSRA rifles and have a spare everything.

I agree, just pointing it out.

 

[Kurt_D]

Steyr has contracted with Sabre to make US AUG A3. They use as many Steyr parts as allowed by 922r. That said...

A3 =
Pros: uses AUG parts (maybe a plus?), has a longer rail, clean.

Cons: uses AUG mags only but you buy a NATO stock, then there's no left hand option, 1:9 twist 16" barrel only, no traditional optic option, expensive, teething issues (recall)

MSAR =
Pros: there are some improved parts - bolt sleeve is milled, larger thrust piece, etc., more modular, more accessories, E4 option allows use of AR mags, left handed option available on both stocks, 1:8 twist barrel available in 14.5", 16", 18" bull and 20", there's bunches out there, parts are all US made and available, customer service has been tops, STG-556 prices are in AR territory and E4s are ~$400 more, there are traditional styled optics available though discontinued, supposed to be kits available in 5.45, 6.8 and 7.62.

Cons: E4 is too cluttered with extra rail attachment points IMO, David is gone so customer service might be a question, there were some teething issues, MSAR can't keep up with demand and some E4s are lacking their options (like 1/2x28 threads instead of 13x1L), 5.45, 6.8 and 7.62 kits are still MIA

I have an E4 and it has been fine with P-mags, factory mags (amber XM-17) bind up and there's supposedly a follower redesign in the works. I just sent my stock in for a mag catch replacement, it works but sticks a little with USGI mags, after speaking with Paul @ MSAR about the mags binding. He basically said to send it in even though mags are working b/c eventually they'll stick and not come out; there's a stainless replacement available so why not?

 

[ccjcc81]

I recieved my MSAR E4 the day after Dave resigned. It was one of their early E4's, so it had mag release problems. Alledgedly, those problems have been remedied, and even if you get an older one they'll fix it. I contacted MSAR. I got help from another CS individual. He is shipping replacement parts for the rifle. The service was prompt. I didn't tell the CS rep this, but I found a fix for the issue on my own. I don't like the fix, so I'll be glad to get the parts, but it functions 100% right now. I never had a jam or FTF during the recommended break in period. I love it. So handy and fun to shoot, and a much better balance for my little wifey. (she has already "transferred ownership" of it from me to her against my will!) I'm thinking about selling my AR to get another one!

It's so danged much easier to clean than my AR. I love the rail options. The sight radius is very short with irons, but a good red dot or scope will fix that up. It truly is a neat rifle. I'm glad that after a lot of internal debate, I put the money down and nabbed it.

Go to the bullpup section of ar15.com. There are many, many threads about this rifle.