Auto drum inconsistent!
- Thread starter Axis II
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How many drops have you put through it? It takes a while for the drum to be coated and become consistent. Make sure it's tightened up properly and load away! I have not loaded that powder but mine has been very consistent with ball & flake powders. As long as you're not loading over max you should be ok while you break it in.
Load Master
Member
What are you using for a scale? The two units I have measure H335 very consistent. A few other tips, make sure you do not over tighten the drum retaining screw. Once the o'ring makes contact, only tighten a 1/4 turn or so more.
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I am in the same boat. I had trouble with an autodrum I purchased as soon as they came out that would leak when using h335. I ordered another to try and good news, no leaks but I want 25.0 and I get 23.5 to 25.2. This is loading with a turret and I operate it consistently each time. I coated with dry graphite and just don't get why I have so much variance.
sellersm
Member
Also, make sure that little screw that is near the "on/off" slide, is tightened securely. I had that issue and as the measure moved around on my classic turret, it was slowly turning itself towards the "off" position.
I emailed Lee and this was their reply:
I emailed Lee and this was their reply:
I'm using one of the $100 range lyman digitals. the scale isn't the issue cause my pan weighs the same each time and is very consistent. the pan will weigh lets say 126.5 each time and I can weigh the case at lets say 56.2 and it shows the same each time. once in a great while ill get a 126.6 or 126.4 and 56.3 or 56.1.
if it was the scale I don't get how it can go as far as 22.7 to 23.4 during throws.
I'm also not auto indexing the press I will charge and now checking on the scale each time then turn the turret to the seater.
if it was the scale I don't get how it can go as far as 22.7 to 23.4 during throws.
I'm also not auto indexing the press I will charge and now checking on the scale each time then turn the turret to the seater.
I ran about 20-30 cases through it to coat it up last night and this morning. ill try the screw thing next. I can see maybe 23.1 or 22.9 but 22.7 to 23.3 and some worse.
I feel your pain. I've had mine for about 2 months and have tried everything to get consistent drops for 9mm reloading. The drum does not always return to the same spot unless I keep the drum tightening screw very loose, and then it leaks
Cheesemaker
Member
You may well be in the "ball park" for accuracy from your drum. It may get a bit better over time. I doubt any drum will consistently be within 1/10th of a grain consistently -too many outside factors at play.
If you want good plinking stuff it is probably perfect for that. Every charge within a 1/10th...trickle on your Lyman.
If you want good plinking stuff it is probably perfect for that. Every charge within a 1/10th...trickle on your Lyman.
Powder measures are very operator-sensitive.
Did you clean plastic parts with soapy water and allow to air dry (don't rinse). Did you clean metal parts (best I have found is Hornady One-Shot Cleaner and Dry Lube) and air dry (NOT wipe off dry lube)?
Keep all oil/petroleum/etc. aerosols away from scales and measures.
You have run some powder through it. Was the graphitized (run some between your fingers and you should get some gray/black on them)? If not, you might have to get some powdered graphite to cycle through it.
After that, consistency in operation is everything with a powder measure.
I found that my bench-mounted PPM is my most consistent measure, and it's a cheap hunk of plastic.
Did you clean plastic parts with soapy water and allow to air dry (don't rinse). Did you clean metal parts (best I have found is Hornady One-Shot Cleaner and Dry Lube) and air dry (NOT wipe off dry lube)?
Keep all oil/petroleum/etc. aerosols away from scales and measures.
You have run some powder through it. Was the graphitized (run some between your fingers and you should get some gray/black on them)? If not, you might have to get some powdered graphite to cycle through it.
After that, consistency in operation is everything with a powder measure.
I found that my bench-mounted PPM is my most consistent measure, and it's a cheap hunk of plastic.
Load Master
Member
I have been using the Lee Auto Drum for the last 8 months. When I first received I didn't trust it. I would measure and measure and still measure most all of my powder drops. I have learn since then, my $150 electronic scale drifts over time. I ended up going back to my balance beam scale and found that the Auto Drum was dropping more consistent than I first believe.
I recently ran a test. I loaded four sets of 10 rounds of .223 Rem using H335 and Hornady 55gr bullets. The cases were hand selected along with the bullets were matched on weight. 20 were trickled on my balance beam scale and 20 were ran through my Load Master using the Lee Auto Drum. Standard deviation for the hand trickle were 42.2 and 39.0. The other set ran on the Load Master had a standard deviation of 12.4 on the first 10 and 13.8 on the second. Here is an example of one of the data sets;
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The results are not what I expected. I have repeated this test and the Auto Drum continues to beat my trickle charges.
I recently ran a test. I loaded four sets of 10 rounds of .223 Rem using H335 and Hornady 55gr bullets. The cases were hand selected along with the bullets were matched on weight. 20 were trickled on my balance beam scale and 20 were ran through my Load Master using the Lee Auto Drum. Standard deviation for the hand trickle were 42.2 and 39.0. The other set ran on the Load Master had a standard deviation of 12.4 on the first 10 and 13.8 on the second. Here is an example of one of the data sets;
[/url]The results are not what I expected. I have repeated this test and the Auto Drum continues to beat my trickle charges.
Cheesemaker
Member
If you are trying for 9mm loads why are you using 223 charges? You may find that the 9mm powder and charges (let's say 4.5grains for example) may well be within a tenth or two....
Try your 9mm charges and let us know.
Try your 9mm charges and let us know.
I found the sweet spot for 223 and want to load a couple hundred and set aside.
I have no issue using the PPM for 223 and trickling but IMO if something is made to do something that needs to be so precise it should indeed do it. IMO.
I don't have any 9mm powder, primers, or bullets yet so once I get it we will see.
I have no issue using the PPM for 223 and trickling but IMO if something is made to do something that needs to be so precise it should indeed do it. IMO.
I don't have any 9mm powder, primers, or bullets yet so once I get it we will see.
Scooter22
Member
I've read your threads on the powder measure and don't know what you expect. Powder mesures throw by volume so you will get some deviation from the "weight" printed. Usually a couple tenths of a grain. Thats what your getting. If you think it will throw whats printed on the cavity every time you'll never be happy. Besides it's been shown that consistency by volume often makes just as accurate of a load. If you want an exact charge down to a .10th of a grain weigh them. As mention technic makes a big difference in throwing accurately. Smooth, firm repeated motion is the trick. Good luck
scooter
I would be happy if it threw 23, 23.1, 22.9 and maybe even 23.2 but when one time it throw 22.7 and the next 23.4 thats a lot of difference.
I'm going to buy some graphite and clean it and spray it and see what happens.
I moved the die up a bit and made sure everything was tightened down and the drum screw loose and its doing better.
I would be happy if it threw 23, 23.1, 22.9 and maybe even 23.2 but when one time it throw 22.7 and the next 23.4 thats a lot of difference.
I'm going to buy some graphite and clean it and spray it and see what happens.
I moved the die up a bit and made sure everything was tightened down and the drum screw loose and its doing better.
Load Master
Member
Exactly and good writeup Scooter.
Paying close attention to weight drop from my test mentioned in my earlier post, with H335, I got better results allowing the Lee Auto Drum to control the dropped powder amount (volume). My weighed out test charge had more than double the variation compared to the volume measure of the Auto Drum. I'll also note, this was my findings with H335. It may not hold true with other powders.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
I have a few old Lee powder throws, made of plastic. I have not used the new version from Lee. Among things to consider is a volume metric powder throw will vary in repeatability depending on the powder. That is a given, it's a matter of how the powder settles in the cylinder. Above the cylinder is a column of powder pushing down so depending on how full the hopper is the charges can vary. Good measures incorporate a baffle and again no clue if the Lee has a baffle? The idea is repeatability. A powder throw is much like using a click type torque wrench. Give six people a click type torque wrench and let them torque a bolt and then check the torqued bolts. You will find six different torque values. 
Seriously, I have done it! Each used has their own technique using a powder throw and if you want good repeatable results the same technique needs to be applied to each throw uniformly. It takes practice.
Finally, in most cases you get what you pay for.
Lee Perfect Powder Measure
RCBS Uniflow Powder Measure
Lyman #55 Powder Measure
Harrell Premium "Culver" Measure W/ Stand
We could list more but it becomes apparent that volumetric powder throws cover a wide price range. I started with a Lee and a Lee Safety Scale so I would never knock Lee. What I suggest is continue to work with the product and stride for uniformity with each powder drop. Some powders you should see +/- 0.1 grain which is what I was seeing on my RCBS Uniflow last time I used it.
Ron
Seriously, I have done it! Each used has their own technique using a powder throw and if you want good repeatable results the same technique needs to be applied to each throw uniformly. It takes practice.Finally, in most cases you get what you pay for.
Lee Perfect Powder Measure
RCBS Uniflow Powder Measure
Lyman #55 Powder Measure
Harrell Premium "Culver" Measure W/ Stand
We could list more but it becomes apparent that volumetric powder throws cover a wide price range. I started with a Lee and a Lee Safety Scale so I would never knock Lee. What I suggest is continue to work with the product and stride for uniformity with each powder drop. Some powders you should see +/- 0.1 grain which is what I was seeing on my RCBS Uniflow last time I used it.
Ron
Scooter22
Member
Anther thought. Do you have any static issues? That will screw with powder handling big time. Is your press mounted solid so it's immobile? I've seen threads with benches flexing causing the handle stroke to be inconsistent. That was screwing with a guys crimping. I always end my handle stroke with a solid "rapp" top and bottom.
press is mounted with 4 inch lag bolts on a oak 2x6 and bolted into the 2x4 and mdf on the bench.
not sure what you mean about static issues?
being new to this I could be wrong that that's normal for a thrower but everything I have read says they should throw with .1gr.
as said it wouldn't bother me too much if it threw says 22.9, 23, 23.1 but some of them were very sketchy. I'm near and going towards max in the hornady book so that's why I'm being picky.
not sure what you mean about static issues?
being new to this I could be wrong that that's normal for a thrower but everything I have read says they should throw with .1gr.
as said it wouldn't bother me too much if it threw says 22.9, 23, 23.1 but some of them were very sketchy. I'm near and going towards max in the hornady book so that's why I'm being picky.
The static being talked about is static electricity.
Until the plastic in new powder measures get coated with the graphite coating put on powder, it generates static electricity which affects how the measure works. Virtually all brands of powder measures suffer from this.
Lee usually tells the customer to run a couple pounds or so of powder through the measure to get the coating on the insides of the measure. There are some other suggestions earlier in the thread that can help with the static.
I wipe new measures down with dryer anti-static sheets and also store a sheet in the measure when not in use. It still takes a while for the static to become a non-issue. I have an old Uniflow powder measure that the reservoir is so heavily coated with graphite, you can barely see the powder level.
The static electricity can affect how the powder dispenses.
Also, when I start up a loading session, I throw twenty or thirty charges through the measure before I even start weighing charges. This settles the powder column and gets it to a uniform density.
Also, I like to use a baffle in all my drum style powder measures. It keeps a constant weight of powder column on the metering cavity. Some folks do not believe that it helps. I am not sure if the Lee Auto-drum can accept one.
Also, as said, consistent operation of the powder measure is critical to getting good results.
I find I usually get a variance of about plus/minus 0.1 grains with most powders. Some powders like Unique, the variance is a bit higher, plus/minus 0.2 grains or so.
Just a note, with handgun level charges, 0.1 grain is a larger percentage difference than in a rifle level charge.
With my firearms, I virtually always find the best charge for accuracy at some point below maximum so I do not get too concerned about the variance with the powder measure. I don't see any difference in accuracy between weighed charges or charges thrown in the powder measure.
Having said that, never under estimate the psychological factor. If you feel better about your reloads when weighing each charge, you will shoot them better.
Until the plastic in new powder measures get coated with the graphite coating put on powder, it generates static electricity which affects how the measure works. Virtually all brands of powder measures suffer from this.
Lee usually tells the customer to run a couple pounds or so of powder through the measure to get the coating on the insides of the measure. There are some other suggestions earlier in the thread that can help with the static.
I wipe new measures down with dryer anti-static sheets and also store a sheet in the measure when not in use. It still takes a while for the static to become a non-issue. I have an old Uniflow powder measure that the reservoir is so heavily coated with graphite, you can barely see the powder level.
The static electricity can affect how the powder dispenses.
Also, when I start up a loading session, I throw twenty or thirty charges through the measure before I even start weighing charges. This settles the powder column and gets it to a uniform density.
Also, I like to use a baffle in all my drum style powder measures. It keeps a constant weight of powder column on the metering cavity. Some folks do not believe that it helps. I am not sure if the Lee Auto-drum can accept one.
Also, as said, consistent operation of the powder measure is critical to getting good results.
I find I usually get a variance of about plus/minus 0.1 grains with most powders. Some powders like Unique, the variance is a bit higher, plus/minus 0.2 grains or so.
Just a note, with handgun level charges, 0.1 grain is a larger percentage difference than in a rifle level charge.
With my firearms, I virtually always find the best charge for accuracy at some point below maximum so I do not get too concerned about the variance with the powder measure. I don't see any difference in accuracy between weighed charges or charges thrown in the powder measure.
Having said that, never under estimate the psychological factor. If you feel better about your reloads when weighing each charge, you will shoot them better.
Scooter22
Member
^^^^^ Excellent post. Thanks.
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