i have and shoot a s&w K, L, and N frame revolver. i also shoot a 1911A1. i use lswc in all of them. i might be an exclusive auto shooter if i was confident the autos were as pull-bang reliable as are my revolvers. overcoming both the thumb and grip safe before the shot leaves too much to Murphy. soooo is there an auto available that can replace my revolvers with their pull-bang-lswc friendly abilities?
Auto Reliability???
- Thread starter rjk2475
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1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Reliability
Sure. I have a trio of 1911s that do hard range duty that have
produced three malfunctions in something over 50,000 rounds...Two of them were failure to lock on empty, and the third a failure to go to battery
on a hot, extremely dirty pistol. They have all gone as high as 2500 rounds
without a stoppage...without cleaning and only a drop of oil in the slide rails
every 2-3 hundred rounds that was allowed to run in without removing the slide. The oiling was done while the pistols were allowed to cool,
slides locked open.
In the time that I've been using them, there has been one parts breakage that didn't stop the gun. Part of the lug broke off a cast slide stop, which accounted for one failure to lock on empty.
Most of the ammo has been reloaded stuff, using my home-cast 230 grain round nose bullets, and I've fired as many as a thousand rounds in one session through one pistol.
Of course, that level of reliability requires a good extractor that's correctly fitted and tuned...good magazines...and reasonably good ammo.
Luck!
Tuner
Sure. I have a trio of 1911s that do hard range duty that have
produced three malfunctions in something over 50,000 rounds...Two of them were failure to lock on empty, and the third a failure to go to battery
on a hot, extremely dirty pistol. They have all gone as high as 2500 rounds
without a stoppage...without cleaning and only a drop of oil in the slide rails
every 2-3 hundred rounds that was allowed to run in without removing the slide. The oiling was done while the pistols were allowed to cool,
slides locked open.
In the time that I've been using them, there has been one parts breakage that didn't stop the gun. Part of the lug broke off a cast slide stop, which accounted for one failure to lock on empty.
Most of the ammo has been reloaded stuff, using my home-cast 230 grain round nose bullets, and I've fired as many as a thousand rounds in one session through one pistol.
Of course, that level of reliability requires a good extractor that's correctly fitted and tuned...good magazines...and reasonably good ammo.
Luck!
Tuner
Turner:
though my springfield has been well upgraded(circa '96), my greatest concern is still with the grip safty. it is after market, but it is possible to grab the gun quickly and not fully depress it. that bothers me. is the only remedy practice?
though my springfield has been well upgraded(circa '96), my greatest concern is still with the grip safty. it is after market, but it is possible to grab the gun quickly and not fully depress it. that bothers me. is the only remedy practice?
First a question: When you practice does the grip safety hang up on you? If not, you may be worried over nothing. On the other hand if there is a problem, the grip safety can be modified so the trigger is released earlier. If you aren't already using one, a flat mainspring housing may help.
armoredman
Member
My CZ75 Compact never burped once.
I've had two S&W revolvers, a 10 and a 67. Both have failed at the range. Just a little gunk in the wrong place I guess, both refused to turn.
Glock 34 and 19 also failed at one time or another (my 20 has been flawless).
My Sig P226 has been perfect, and most P226's enjoy the same rep. I'd trust my P226 over any other handgun. No safeties, just a smooth revolver like pull. Good controlls, great accuracy. Revolvers have always seemed a little fragile to me.
So for you, take a look at a Sig P220 .45 acp. Just wrap your hands around one, I think you will like it.
Glock 34 and 19 also failed at one time or another (my 20 has been flawless).
My Sig P226 has been perfect, and most P226's enjoy the same rep. I'd trust my P226 over any other handgun. No safeties, just a smooth revolver like pull. Good controlls, great accuracy. Revolvers have always seemed a little fragile to me.
So for you, take a look at a Sig P220 .45 acp. Just wrap your hands around one, I think you will like it.
Richochet
Member
Good ammo and a clean gun usually spells relability. Most auto pistols I've played with could be tuned or a load found that was almost fool proof. The 1911's have a great reputation for reliability in fact. And well deserved.
I would feel about as safe with one of these as any wheel gun. And most of the time, if an auto malfunctions, it's easier and faster to clear than with a wheel gun.
As for the safety issue, I wouldn't have an auto pistol that didn't have a safety to contend with.
Bottom line is I think there are ways around all your complaints. I'm not pushing the auto on you...just saying that EITHER can be made to serve you exceedingly well.
And there are fellows here who can advise you how to fix any specific.
I would feel about as safe with one of these as any wheel gun. And most of the time, if an auto malfunctions, it's easier and faster to clear than with a wheel gun.
As for the safety issue, I wouldn't have an auto pistol that didn't have a safety to contend with.
Bottom line is I think there are ways around all your complaints. I'm not pushing the auto on you...just saying that EITHER can be made to serve you exceedingly well.
And there are fellows here who can advise you how to fix any specific.
ok if i pull my 1911 leaving my thumb on the safe as i shoot, i need to make sure i push my thumb forward to guarantee grip safe disengagement. otherwise, i push my thumb off below the safe to insure a tight grip for trigger release. is this a normal part of 1911 use or do i need a modification on the grip saftety?
Zak Smith
Member
Just about everyone in IPSC/USPSA shoots "high thumb" which means the strong-side thumb stays on top of the safety. The thumbs should not "drive" the gun at all side to side. Leaving it on top will provide some vertical flip control. If your grip safety is not disengaging properly, have it fixed.
-z
-z
rjk2475:
>> ok if i pull my 1911 leaving my thumb on the safe as i shoot, i need to make sure i push my thumb forward to guarantee grip safe disengagement. otherwise, i push my thumb off below the safe to insure a tight grip for trigger release. is this a normal part of 1911 use or do i need a modification on the grip saftety? <<
I had, and still have the same problem you described. I addressed it in various ways, some of which may (or may not) provide an answer for you.
1. On other then Series 80 Colts, or other clones that use a trigger or grip safety actuated firing pin block, I pinned the grip safety into the forward position. In doing this I lost the safety feature, but I didn’t give a rip about it, as I consider the grip safety to be superfluous. Others of course feel differently, and I respect their opinions – but not enough to change my mind. In any case this modification will absolutely solve the problem.
2. For others, and on one of my personal guns, I left the grip safety operational, but modified it so that a very small movement would allow the trigger to be pulled. This solution also worked for me, but some would say that the safety was less dependable.
3. If you like the currently popular “duck-butt†grip safeties, they can be purchased with a large pad on the bottom, which pretty well insures that the safety will be depressed, even by those that hold their thumb in the high position.
4. The folks at Gunsite (Jeff Cooper’s old training facility) sell a manual safety where the pad or thumbpiece is located lower. You can rest your thumb on it and the resulting grip will make it much easier to fully depress the grip safety. I believe you can buy one from Brownells (www.brownells.com).
Any one of the above, or a combination of them should eliminate your concerns.
>> ok if i pull my 1911 leaving my thumb on the safe as i shoot, i need to make sure i push my thumb forward to guarantee grip safe disengagement. otherwise, i push my thumb off below the safe to insure a tight grip for trigger release. is this a normal part of 1911 use or do i need a modification on the grip saftety? <<
I had, and still have the same problem you described. I addressed it in various ways, some of which may (or may not) provide an answer for you.
1. On other then Series 80 Colts, or other clones that use a trigger or grip safety actuated firing pin block, I pinned the grip safety into the forward position. In doing this I lost the safety feature, but I didn’t give a rip about it, as I consider the grip safety to be superfluous. Others of course feel differently, and I respect their opinions – but not enough to change my mind. In any case this modification will absolutely solve the problem.
2. For others, and on one of my personal guns, I left the grip safety operational, but modified it so that a very small movement would allow the trigger to be pulled. This solution also worked for me, but some would say that the safety was less dependable.
3. If you like the currently popular “duck-butt†grip safeties, they can be purchased with a large pad on the bottom, which pretty well insures that the safety will be depressed, even by those that hold their thumb in the high position.
4. The folks at Gunsite (Jeff Cooper’s old training facility) sell a manual safety where the pad or thumbpiece is located lower. You can rest your thumb on it and the resulting grip will make it much easier to fully depress the grip safety. I believe you can buy one from Brownells (www.brownells.com).
Any one of the above, or a combination of them should eliminate your concerns.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Grip Safety Tuning
I'm in agreement with Old Fuff...as usual...in that the grip safety is redundant and unnecessary in the 1911. The Browning High Power is proof
of that. On the other hand, a pistol that has had a safety feature purposely deactivated can cause a problem in the legal action that follows
even a completely justified defensive shooting.
I don't have a problem with the grip safety, as long as it's working
correctly. I have addressed the problem for several people who do.
The safety doesn't move straight in and out, but rather swings through a short arc. To get it to release earlier...or with less movement, you can
file the underside of the blocking lug at an angle so that it will let the trigger move a little earlier. The sharper the angle, the quicker it will release. This "times" the disengagement so that it will release without having to resort to a "gorilla Grip" and still allow it to work like it should. If you need a little more positive engagement, you can also adjust the amount of swing in the other direction by taking a little metal off the retaining tabs at the bottom...where it butts up against the mainspring housing.
There are several things on the 1911 that lend themselves to tuning or
tailoring it to suit the individual.
EDITED TO ADD: If you have a go at filing that angle, remember that just a little goes a long way. Just lightly break the corner and try the safety. If
an angle is already established, follow the angle and file lightly...Trial
and error. It's easier to remove metal than it is to put it back on.
Luck!
Tuner
I'm in agreement with Old Fuff...as usual...in that the grip safety is redundant and unnecessary in the 1911. The Browning High Power is proof
of that. On the other hand, a pistol that has had a safety feature purposely deactivated can cause a problem in the legal action that follows
even a completely justified defensive shooting.
I don't have a problem with the grip safety, as long as it's working
correctly. I have addressed the problem for several people who do.
The safety doesn't move straight in and out, but rather swings through a short arc. To get it to release earlier...or with less movement, you can
file the underside of the blocking lug at an angle so that it will let the trigger move a little earlier. The sharper the angle, the quicker it will release. This "times" the disengagement so that it will release without having to resort to a "gorilla Grip" and still allow it to work like it should. If you need a little more positive engagement, you can also adjust the amount of swing in the other direction by taking a little metal off the retaining tabs at the bottom...where it butts up against the mainspring housing.
There are several things on the 1911 that lend themselves to tuning or
tailoring it to suit the individual.
EDITED TO ADD: If you have a go at filing that angle, remember that just a little goes a long way. Just lightly break the corner and try the safety. If
an angle is already established, follow the angle and file lightly...Trial
and error. It's easier to remove metal than it is to put it back on.
Luck!
Tuner
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