Automatic m4/m16

[shattered00]

Alright, the rat-tat-tat of a machinegun has grasped onto me ever since I fired one. I realize that they aren't the most applicable of guns since lots don't have that good of accuracy on full auto or burst fire. They, however, are just so damn sweet.

I was going to purchase an American 180, but the m16 was recommended in its place. I know how to order machineguns, and can get the Chief of Police to sign the form. I don't, however, know what to look for in an automatic rifle.

First off, the only major difference between the m4 and m16 is the barrel length right?

Is it possible for me to get an automatic m4?

Do I want one with the sear being the registered machinegun part or the receiver?

Since I am giong to be paying QUITE a bit of money, I really don't want to get screwed over. I want this gun to be able to fire a lot, and not break down after 500 or so rounds.

Are gunsmitsh allowed to work on the machinegun parts if they break (i.e. can they be replaced or fixed?) I would hate to pay 10k for a gun and then have it break and be very very very very very sad if it turned into a metal club.

Is 10K a reasonable price for an m4 or m16?

Thanks.

 

[Chipperman]

There are few, if any, tranferable M4s out there. What you would do is buy an M16 and just change the upper to an M4 upper. Here's mine:



The upper on the gun is a 10.5", the once below is an M4 upper.

There are three basic ways to get an M16
1. Registered Receiver (what I have)
2. Registered Drop in Auto Sear
3. Lightning Link

They all have advantages and disadvantages. I chose to go with a RR. Look at ads on Subguns and Sturmgewehr. $10 is about right for a RR.
They can be worked on and repaired, as long as the serial number is intact.

 

[CleverNickname]

There are no transferrable M4's, as they weren't made until the early 90's, but you can make an M16 into an M4 lookalike. The only difference between the two is in the stock, barrel and upper, all of which can be changed out.

Now, what to buy. There's several choices:

1. Lightning link
2. RDIAS
3. Converted AR15
4. Colt M16

The only advantage to a lightning link is that it's a couple thousand cheaper than the other options. It's just a piece of sheet metal that holds the hammer back. They're generally full-auto only, but I read awhile back that someone was selling a modified trigger group that would allow select-fire.

An drop-in auto sear is an auto sear where instead of being installed on a pin in the lower, it's installed on a metal body that fits around the upper's rear takedown lug. If the body has some slop in it, it might require some tinkering so that it's timed right and the sear releases at the correct time. The advantage with an RDIAS is that it's not as likely to be affected by a kaboom as a registered receiver.

A converted AR15 can be a tossup, depending on who did the conversion. If Joe Sixpack filed a form 1 and drilled the autosear hole himself (back when it was still ok to do so), then the quality might be a little off. If a professional did it, then odds are it's probably ok. Anything can be fixed though.

A factory Colt M16 has a little more value because it came from the factory as a machine gun, and because it has the pretty pony picture on the side. Other than that, there's no functional difference between an M16 and a converted AR15.

If you're a shooter, I'd get an RDIAS or a conversion. If you're a collector, then a Colt M16 might be worth the premium. For what it's worth, I've got an RDIAS.

 

[shattered00]

Thanks for the info. I definitely want one with both semi-auto and auto so the lightning link is out of the question. I am only 22, so I don't have much of a fascination with "originals" such as the ones made by Colt. I also generally don't have as much money as older people. I am working with a 50K a year budget, so teh cheaper the better but not at the expense of quality.

This is probably a stupid question, but the RDIS and the registered receiver would both have the same selector switch on teh side as the Colt right?

Also, I am far from a gunsmith or even someone who uses a dremel to file down things, therefore I would be scared of installing a drop in auto sear. Knowing me I would screw it up and waste 10K on the spot... That being said, how would I know if Joe Sixpack did the conversion rather than a reputable gunsmith? I definitely want a gun that goes bang most all the time with as little repairs being needed in the future as possible. I don't mind paying somene to improve the quality of the gun, but after spending around 10K I would hope that it doesn't need much improvement... I want to get as close to the Colt M16 as possible in terms of performance and reliability.

Just out of curiosity, how much more would a Colt cost compared to converted AR15?

 

[harvester of sorrow]

Right now, it seems like sellers are asking $14,000 to $20,000 for Colt registered receiver guns (depending on how rare the original gun configuration was from Colt, whether it's NIB, etc.). You might be able to get one for a little less than that occasionally. Guns from makers like SGW, Sendra, EA Arms, Nesard, and Frankfort Arsenal usually are listed for $10,000 to $11,000. If you have cash money ready, I think getting one of those for under 10k is very realistic.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Here's my M4 Clone, a Colt M16A1 with Bushmaster Upper.



If you want one, get one. Don't buy one of the cheaper options and forever wish you had bought real deal. You really can't lose on buying an M16 for $15,000. The price will only go up with time. I paid $2,200 for mine a few years ago.

 

[ACP230]

Some places to look for transferable M16s for sale are:

www.subguns.com
www.sturmgewehr.com
and the ads in Small Arms Review.

With some shopping you might find one at a bit less than quoted above.

 

[Chipperman]

"This is probably a stupid question, but the RDIS and the registered receiver would both have the same selector switch on teh side as the Colt right?"

Correct. You can install an ambi one if you like.

"Also, I am far from a gunsmith or even someone who uses a dremel to file down things, therefore I would be scared of installing a drop in auto sear. Knowing me I would screw it up and waste 10K on the spot... That being said, how would I know if Joe Sixpack did the conversion rather than a reputable gunsmith? "

If you went with a DIAS, you would be altering the reciever for fitting, not the DIAS. If you screwed up, the worst you would do is lose a $100 lower. You would not ever touch the DIAS itself with a Dremel or file.
The Form 3 or 4 will have the companies/person's name on it that made the machine gun. For example, mine says "BFI" which is Bushmaster. If it says "Joe Fivethumbs" you may want to pass on that gun.

 

[shattered00]

Thanks once again for all the information. You are all very helpful. Now I must ask one more thing. This is such a lot of money, so I figured I would ask you all to step in my shoes and make the decision as if you were me.

I understand that people should do what they want to do, but I just wanted to see what othes in my situation would do.

The issue at hand is whether you would buy an M-16 OR purchase multiple guns such as semi H&K G3, Galil, FNC, Fal, Moss 590, Rem 870 and maybe a full auto submachinegun such as Mac or Uzi.

The only constraint that I have is that you choose one of the two options aforesaid. Please don't go on tangents saying things like "I would invest that money into oil since it is the highest $ per barrel ever" or "I would buy 1million candy bars" etc.

Information I think you will need.

Age:22
Salary: 50K per year
Full Benefits (medical, dental etc.)
No wife/girlfriend
Definitely not ever having kids - vasectomy etc.
Payments: $200 for college loans and $70 for truck insurance
All the other necessities of life such as food and water and ammo

I have never spent anywhere near this much money before, so I implore you all to aid me.

 

[CleverNickname]

Buy the M16. Barring some change in the law, if you ever decide that you'd rather have another 10-15k in the bank or would rather have a bunch of semi-auto guns, you'll most likely be able to sell the M16 for more than you paid for it. If you make the opposite decision and buy a bunch of semi-auto guns and later decide you'd like an M16, the semi-auto guns most likely won't have appreciated any at all, and the M16 will be a lot more expensive.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Buy what you want most. If you want an M16, you won't be happy with a Mac or an Uzi. Yes, they are fun to play with, but in a year or two, you'll still be wanting an M16. I have a Mac, Uzi, MP5 and M16 and the M16 gets more range time than the others put together. It is more versatile. I can use a .22LR conversion, buy a dedicated .22LR upper, 9mm upper and an endless supply of gadgets to bolt to it. I have a suppressor for it. To me, the M16 is the most fun of the common full autos in the civilian world.

 

[Chipperman]

I have an MP5 and an M16. For me the MP5 is king. I shoot it far more than the M16. If I had to choose one to keep, it would be the MP5.

I would take the advice above. Get what you want most now. You can always get semi autos later. Your window of opportunity into the MG world may close at any time.

The big question is whether you want an M16 or something like an HK sear. Both are very versatile, which is why I chose them above all other guns (HK sear gets you options of G3, MP5, HK53, HK21, etc. M16 gets you uppers in many calibers and lengths, and even belt fed options). If I could have one more, I'd get a Thompson next. I am very happy with my choice of those two, however.

 

[ACP230]

The M16 has a lot of aftermarket stuff available for it.
Lakeside Machine has a .22 adapter kit that will work in FA.
Arthur Ciener also has a .22 adapter for the M16.

There are rimfire and handgun caliber top ends for the M16. I saw one in .45ACP recently that talked to me, but I couldn't afford it.

I am looking at lower priced FA rifles, but if money wasn't a problem, I'd buy an M16. Of course a UZI, or something else, will probably end up on your list within a few months to a year. I bought a Reising and figured that would do me. I know own two other subguns and am looking around again. I'd have bought something else by now, except for frivolities like the heating bill and my daughter's college tuition.