AWB II? Let's fight!!!

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I agree that if Gore or Kerry got in, they might be proactive on the AWB. That would have been a bad thing.

However, I'm not giving GWB any Brownie points on other freedoms. He and the social conservatives are certainly not fans of personal liberties or some of the other amendments.

Let's be real here - GWB has not done a particularly good job as President. The best we can say is that he wasn't proactive for the AWB or other antigun measures. I find it hard to find a major issue that he has handled well. Tax cuts maybe - but then he let spending go way out of control.

He's out of his intellectual depth, I'm afraid.

I personally hope the GOP can come up with a truly competent person as a candidate for the job. Looking at the GOP or Democratic potentials - abstracting out the RKBA issue for a second - I really don't see anyone with the sheer character, brains or force of will to lead us in difficult times. I see a set of little people motivated for their chance at fame - without vision or real conviction.

While some folks concentrate only on the RKBA - I must look at the total picture of someone who can deal with the country's problems and the world. There's no one on the horizon from either party that impresses me.

Yesterday, someone asked GWB if Iraq had anything to do with 9/11 and he said - NOTHING. So, seems to me - that is a clarion call for Cheney to resign. That clockwork %($(*% lied through his teeth to the American people. I suggest that Cheney go back to the skeet range and the Pres. put forth Lieberman for VP!!

Then, make Rumsfield Secretary of the Artic Icefields. If that happened, I might regain some respect for Bush. Note, that they shuffled Wulfowitz off to the World Bank.

The Lincolns, Churchills, Roosevelts, Disraelis, etc. - they don't exist anymore. We get presidents who are proud to say that they don't even read.

Bah - the AWB pales in comparison to the threat of the incompetent leadership we will have if we are going to WWIII.

Now, I'm depressed. :(
 
Depressed!? That's not surprizing....

NineseveN:

Kerry or Gore would have ensured it got to their desk.

Through what means, exactly?
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By use of the 'bully pulpit'.

Even without a majority in the house,
Slick Willy was able to do RKBA repeated harm.
The S&W 'deal' comes to mind.

Gore or Kerry would not have found it difficult to re-authorize the AWB-
or worse. What's more, they would have eagerly sought to do so. :scrutiny:


GEM:

The best we can say is that he wasn't proactive for the AWB or other antigun measures. I find it hard to find a major issue that he has handled well. Tax cuts maybe - but then he let spending go way out of control.

He's out of his intellectual depth, I'm afraid.
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No argument there.

But as you seem to imply - so was Gore ("An Inconvenient Truth"):rolleyes:

And Kerry.:barf:


I personally hope the GOP can come up with a truly competent person as a candidate for the job. Looking at the GOP or Democratic potentials - abstracting out the RKBA issue for a second - I really don't see anyone with the sheer character, brains or force of will to lead us in difficult times. I see a set of little people motivated for their chance at fame - without vision or real conviction.

While some folks concentrate only on the RKBA - I must look at the total picture of someone who can deal with the country's problems and the world. There's no one on the horizon from either party that impresses me.
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AGREED! And THAT's the genuine problem we face, isn't it?

It's pretty obvious that someone like John McCain is more of the same, perhaps without even the RKBA advantage.:banghead:

What can be done?

I've been away from the U.S. for long enough that I expect to
suffer from a "Rip van Winkle" effect upon returning. I'll be
volunteering time to help out good local folks, but have no
idea what, if anything, can be done to encourage selection of
someone with more appeal as a presidential contender.


The Lincolns, Churchills, Roosevelts, Disraelis, etc. - they don't exist anymore. We get presidents who are proud to say that they don't even read.

Bah - the AWB pales in comparison to the threat of the incompetent leadership we will have if we are going to WWIII.
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I'm with you 100%

I wonder if anyone with ability even wants the president's job anymore?

How do we facilitate the nomination of able leaders rather than the
egotistical boneheads currently frontrunning for each party's nomination?:confused:
 
Kerry or Gore would have ensured it got to their desk.
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Through what means, exactly?
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Kerrygore would have misrepresented its purpose (lied out his butt) to the public, and made a big hullaballoo about it with the liberal media to try and sway the uninformed parts of the public to pressure their congressmen.

Some congressmen/senators were doing that already (check out the California senators demented ravings on letting AWB expire), but as president, kerrygore would have drummed up a lot more attention.
 
This is what the "Them Republicrats and Democans are all the same!" people don't get ... even though the GOP hasn't fought tooth and nail to repeal everything back to the NFA, they do prevent a LOT of this crap from even getting out of committee.
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And I, for one, feel darned insulted when the Republican Party comes to me and points to this pusillanimous conduct as proof that they're the indispensable defenders of the Second Amendment.

It's sad days for the Republic when the choice is between which party is trampling upon Americans' rights slower and to a slightly more limited degree.

Both parties the same? Not quite. The Republicans simply make me nauseous while the Democrats invoke active vomiting.
 
Some congressmen/senators were doing that already (check out the California senators demented ravings on letting AWB expire), but as president, kerrygore would have drummed up a lot more attention.
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But the Republicans were in control of the Congress, and unless they passed a bill to create new AWB, it wouldnt matter how much attention Kerry and Gore tried to draw to it.

Are you saying the Republicans would have caved in to the pressure from Kerry? If so, then that really isnt much of an endorsement for the Republican party is it?
 
When the GOP had control of the White House and Congress, where was the wave of progun legislation? I seemed to have missed it.

The national leadership of the GOP cares little for the RKBA. I think that they thought it was a big social conservative issue a few years ago and used it.

However, they now think that gays, abortion, flag burning and terror will bring out the right wing base more. Thus, guns are on the back burner.

Like I said - Bush can be very outspoken about these but not about the RKBA. It is only on the local congresional level that bans are blocked nowadays.
 
Here's a thought

There is not a village, town or city in America that does not have Internet access. Rather than our already over-worked politicians being hounded to exhaustion, I propose that ALL present and future proposed legislation be tabled until a secured, and reliable internet-voting format be established.

Perhaps "representation" has its limits. After all, Congressional approval rates have hit an all-time low, approximately 24% of American approve of Congress. I say that high time we have a change to legislative initiative, discourse and adoption. Why should a body of 500ish slavishly, over-worked, poor-souled, American congressional “do-gooders” continue to subject themselves to this self-sacrifice and self-abuse.

America, let us all free them of their chains of burden, and send them packing. I submit that a part-time congress and senate would thus be feasible. That fact would permit all of them to prepare for, compete for, and hold regular, full-time employment just like all of us. Given that sameness with us, they could via empathy then truly represent us in their VOLUNTARY, unpaid, part-time service, and so do being limited to a single 4 to 6 years term (never to be re-subjected). For any more pressing matters, simply announce on television, radio and e-mail that a secure vote is scheduled for X-day so as to clarify American resolve for any given crisis, short of war, for same which the President would call emergency session.

Those public servants who desired more consistent employment could be volunteered to work the nation's borders, enforcing current immigration laws.

:neener:

Sarcasm button off.

In short, perhaps Congress has too much free time on it hands. Or as stated by one person much wiser than I, "An idle mind is the devil's playground."

Sarcasm button really off. :)

Doc2005
 
Are you saying the Republicans would have caved in to the pressure from Kerry?
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The Republicans are, for the most part, good intentioned on matters of RKBA, but in some ways clueless.

Consider how they were all set to pass the Gun Industry Protection bill even after the Dems added an amendment to include AWB renewal. The NRA stepped in and convinced the Republicans to vote it down, hoping to reintroduce the Protection bill later without the amendment. And, that is what happened. As a result, we have the Gun Industry Protection passed without renewal of AWB, but thanks to the NRA more than to the Republicans.
 
NineseveN, you might be letting your opinion of Bush....

cloud your overview of the situation.:)

It seems fairly evident that, given the choices available,

"Dubya" was the better choice for RKBA.

We are talking about Gore and Kerry here.:uhoh:

I'd even be willing to opine that "Dubya" was a better choice
from the standpoint of national defense as well.:eek:

But the real problem we gun folks face is how to cement a
plank into the (since the other one won't even consider it)
Republican party which would guarantee the maintaining and strengthening of RKBA.

Given the political landscape we now inhabit, I am pessimistic
that this can be achieved.

Assuredly, AWB II will appear sooner rather than later
if (when) the Republicans lose control of Congress and the Whitehouse.:scrutiny:
 
A Republican plank would probably jabber about 'sportsmen' and not be worth spit.
 
fallingblock said:
NineseveN, you might be letting your opinion of Bush.... cloud your overview of the situation.
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What opinion of Bush? I think you’re letting your assumptions get the better of you, I don’t dislike Bush anymore than I’ve disliked any other president since Reagan and I even voted for him (once anyway).


It seems fairly evident that, given the choices available,

"Dubya" was the better choice for RKBA.
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“Better” does not mean ‘good’. Sure, Bush was better than Kerry or Gore for the RKBA in the same way that a punch in the mouth is better than a kick to the genitals, but the question is not which is better or which one is less bad, it’s whether or not one or the other is ‘good’. Bush is not good for the RKBA.

However, some people like to demonize Kerry and say that if he were president he would single-handedly have all guns confiscated and all gun-owners burned or imprisoned, which is highly unlikely and rambling off on a tangent about it is pretty silly…it would take more than the desires of a sitting president to accomplish what the fear-mongers rattle on about in these kinds of threads every day.
 
Here is the "strengthened" AWB II from back in 2003, only their lack of Dictocratic votes stopped their tyranny.

Look up HR 2038 and S 1431 find this:

HR 2038 with 11 co-sponsors:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:H.R.2038:

S 1432 with 111 co-sponsors:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:SN01431:mad:@@P

A few exerpts on what would have been banned:
`(A) The following rifles or copies or duplicates thereof:

...(*NOTE: even bigger list of specifically-named firearms than the first AWB)

`(D) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine, and that has--

`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

`(ii) a threaded barrel;

`(iii) a pistol grip;

`(iv) a forward grip; or

`(v) a barrel shroud.

...(*NOTE: no more two-features clause, a detachable magazine and anything on this list is banned)

`(L) A semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General. In making the determination, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any Federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.'.
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And when the 2003 bills got stopped in committee, Lautenberg tried it again in 2005.

Senate bill S645 with the usual 11 Dictocrat co-sponsors:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:S.645:

Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2005 (Introduced in Senate)
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Same longer list of specifically-named guns banned firearms, same single-feature ban instead of two, same "military design" clause as the previous bills.

If the Democrats want to convince people they support the 2nd Amendment, this has to stop.
 
Thinking about it, you know that extremist crackpots of both parties continually submit bills to abridge the rights of citizens. They differ in what rights they are nutso about.

Thus, we get continued AWBs and the gun world gets all upset. But some leftists like it for their base.

And we get continual flag burning amendments when the right wants to abridge freedom of expression but wants the issue to stir up the authoritarian base.

What else is new in the world? We are in a global struggle and the left and right bring up trivia to stir up their extremists and then they do not deal with significant issues.

Will an AWB ban or flag burning amendment stop an Iranian nuke from landing in your backyard? I think not.
 
I am seriously so damn sick of this gun-ban nonsense. More crap from politicians who want to look like they give a damn about the community without really doing anything. There's a difference between the 1994 ban and any new ban though. Now, due to the internet, the gun owners are mobilized. We told these people we didn't want their socialistic laws. In 2004 we pushed them to the coast. I say in 2006-2008 we push their asses into the ocean (by votes of course). In many respects, we preach to the choir when we tell each other what to do. Remember when liberals had all those "educational" slogan posters in classrooms around the country? One of them stated, "Education is Power". Reluctant as I am to admit it, they were correct (probably the only good idea they've had in the last 100 years). Education is power, so gun owners of America, EDUCATE people about guns. EMPOWER people. Bring your friends/co-workers, wives, children with you next time you shoot. Let's turn the liberal's logic on them. Empower women with guns. Explain how all the cities with the strictest gun laws also have the highest crime. We all know the spiel. But the key to unlocking these chains of bondage is being vocal about it. If we remain vocal people WILL listen.
 
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