B&T TP9-N SBR.

[MCMXI]

A friend had a B&T TP9-N shipped to me this week and we got to "play" with it a couple of days ago. I was so impressed with how it's designed, how it functions, how it shoots and the overall build quality that I ordered an alpine green one for myself this afternoon. I plan on going the SBR route so ordered a folding stock, foregrip, Aimpoint Micro TL and five additional 30-round magazines.

The photos below are of my friend's TP9 and he's going the SBR route too. The way the blow-back system works is amazing. The barrel is initially locked to the bolt carrier to add mass, and upon firing moves rearward an inch or so with the bolt carrier. A cam pin causes the barrel to rotate and separate from the bolt carrier as the spent case is ejected. Such an elegant and clever design that's surprisingly accurate, has great ergonomics, is light, compact and has a decent trigger. What's not to like.

The proprietary suppressor is currently out of stock but I'll be ordering one of those as soon as possible.





Weight with folding stock, foregrip and empty 30-round magazine



In battery



Upon firing the barrel initially moves rearward with bolt carrier (increases reciprocating mass initially)



Barrel separates from bolt carrier to eject spent case and feed another round into the chamber (reduces reciprocating mass)

 

[entropy]

I about cried when I had to cut one of those up. A well-made Swiss machine.

 

[MCMXI]

I about cried when I had to cut one of those up. A well-made Swiss machine.

You're going to have to explain that one!

 

[horsemen61]

You're going to have to explain that one!

^^ what he said!

 

[Speedo66]

Used in a crime?

 

[BreechFace]

I about cried when I had to cut one of those up. A well-made Swiss machine.

I couldn't do it.

 

[BreechFace]

@MCMXI Have you fired an MP5 or variant? How does the recoil impulse compare, pretty similar?

 

[MCMXI]

@MCMXI Have you fired an MP5 or variant? How does the recoil impulse compare, pretty similar?

Yes, I've shot MP5s in semi and full-auto modes but always suppressed. The TP9 uses a proprietary suppressor so we won't be able to shoot suppressed for a while. Regardless, I can't say how the recoil impulse compares to the MP5 at the moment but I'll have my friend bring his MP5 clone out next week and we'll shoot side by side to get a better idea of the differences and similarities. I found the TP9 to be easy to shoot and nothing stood out about the recoil. It's one of the coolest firearms I've handled in a while and I'm excited about receiving mine. Too bad the suppressors are out of stock everywhere.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I know they're good guns, but I just can't get past the 1980s cheap spray & pray look of them. It's like a weird amalgamation of the Calico, Uzi pistol and MP5K

Of the current crop of SMG/PCC, I would have to go with the Scorpion.

 

[MCMXI]

Of the current crop of SMG/PCC, I would have to go with the Scorpion.

A couple of my friends have Scorpion SBRs that I've shot fairly extensively and they're great value for money. I thought about buying one after shooting theirs, but I consider the TP9 to be a better overall product. Often the extra 20% in performance comes at a significant increase in cost. I agree that the exterior of the TP9 isn't anything to behold, but internally it's a freakin' diamond!

 

[entropy]

I couldn't do it.

When the Sherriff says cut it up, you cut it up.
It was an evidence gun, and most of them we were allowed to keep and resell as payment for maintaining their weapons, but that one we were ordered to destroy. We did keep some of the internals; Bolt, etc. They usually made us destroy Ravens, Bryco, and Jennings pistols also, but we weren't as broken up about that.

I know they're good guns, but I just can't get past the 1980s cheap spray & pray look of them. It's like a weird amalgamation of the Calico, Uzi pistol and MP5K

Of the current crop of SMG/PCC, I would have to go with the Scorpion.

A couple of my friends have Scorpion SBRs that I've shot fairly extensively and they're great value for money. I thought about buying one after shooting theirs, but I consider the TP9 to be a better overall product. Often the extra 20% in performance comes at a significant increase in cost. I agree that the exterior of the TP9 isn't anything to behold, but internally it's a freakin' diamond!

I agree with both of you. It is a bit cheesy looking, (IMO, so is the Scorpion) but inside where it counts, it is a work of art!

 

[shoobe01]

Interesting. I always loved the idea of these, but the only one I got to shoot was full auto and it was... not as great as I hoped. Heavy and otherwise not terrific trigger, then it is cycling way, way too fast. The two, together, made it not especially easy to shoot, etc. May have been a Steyr (who sold the design to B&T long ago) but not sure how much that matters.

The B&T folder looks awesome, seems like the same thing on the USW which is one of those I vaguely pine for generally, though I do not need one.

Everyone who says they are dated or cheese looking is wrong. They are still awesome looking. Atone for your sins.

(Also, I REALLY liked my CALICO. Very neat in many, many ways. Would like someone to revisit that to make the few silly bits less silly.)

 

[BreechFace]

I’m not a fan of the looks either. Give me an MP5 any day. But don’t let it stop you all, more the merrier. They are a cool design to be sure.

 

[BreechFace]

When the Sherriff says cut it up, you cut it up.

I was just being dramatic. It would pain me so, like it did you.

 

[MCMXI]

Interesting. I always loved the idea of these, but the only one I got to shoot was full auto and it was... not as great as I hoped. Heavy and otherwise not terrific trigger, then it is cycling way, way too fast.

You found the TP9 to be heavy? In the photo above it's shown with a weight of just under 3-1/2lb and that's with the stock, vertical foregrip and 30-round magazine. A 5" steel-framed 1911 with a loaded 8-round magazine is only 5oz lighter!! I agree that the trigger is not the best but it's far from bad. I'm not trying to convince you of anything but I'm just suprised that you found it to be heavy.

As a point of comparison here's my MPX with a 30-round magazine but no vertical foregrip. It weighs almost twice as much as the TP9 but is arguably a much nicer looking SBR.

 

[waterhouse]

I think he was referring to the trigger being heavy and not terrific.

Haven’t shot this one yet. I did get to shoot the USW with the optic and folding stock, neat pistol/SBR but also didn’t care for the trigger.

 

[MCMXI]

I think he was referring to the trigger being heavy and not terrific.

Haven’t shot this one yet. I did get to shoot the USW with the optic and folding stock, neat pistol/SBR but also didn’t care for the trigger.

@waterhouse, I see it now.

Yes, the trigger is not a match or precision trigger but I've always felt that the importance of great triggers on pistols and sub guns that are intended for fighting is highly overrated, kind of like trigger reset too. It's more of a marketing thing for potential buyers at a gun counter who think they're Tuco or something telling everyone who'll listen how great the reset is.

My TP9-N is supposed to show up at the PO tomorrow so maybe I'll have it by Wednesday or Thursday since they warned me

 

[MCMXI]

@MCMXI Have you fired an MP5 or variant? How does the recoil impulse compare, pretty similar?

A few updates:

A couple of friends came over today. One bought his TP9 and an MP5 clone and the other bought his Scorpion and we did a lot of shooting. We all agreed that the MP5 was the easiest to shoot accurately and fast. The recoil impulse of the MP5 is way smoother than either the TP9 or Scorpion. The trigger in the Scorpion wasn't factory, some kind of enhanced trigger. Of the three I liked the TP9 trigger the least but it's not terrible. I would prefer a trigger with less travel or take up before there's any significant resistance but it doesn't hurt accuracy/precision. The recoil impulse of the TP9 seemed to be slightly softer than that of the Scorpion. By the way, the MP5, Scorpion and MPX are all within an ounce or two of each other with empty 30-round magazines, and all about twice the weight of the TP9 which makes the TP9 all the more remarkable. We all agreed that the TP9's ergonomics are excellent.

I sold my MPX on Gunbroker today for a lot more than I paid for it so it'll help pay for the TP9, Aimpoint and suppressor.

My TP9 should be here tomorrow.

 

[MCMXI]

Here are the MP5 and Scorpion on the scale.

 

[MCMXI]

By the way, a little quiz question .... does anyone know what the counterbore feature on the TP9 bolt is for (see arrow)?

 

[adcoch1]

By the way, a little quiz question .... does anyone know what the counterbore feature on the TP9 bolt is for (see arrow)?

View attachment 961039

Weight reduction? Or a sneaky way to use a cartridge head to charge it....

 

[MCMXI]

Weight reduction? Or a sneaky way to use a cartridge head to charge it....

@adcoch1, you're on the right track with your second suggestion. The manual suggests inserting the head of a fired case in the counterbore and pushing the body of the case up against an "immovable" object to aid in getting the bolt to move rearwards if for some reason it won't move using the charging handle. It would be amusing if some engineer figured out that the bolt needs to be lightened up a bit after a bunch were manufactured and this was a workaround disguised as a feature.

 

[adcoch1]

@adcoch1, you're on the right track with your second suggestion. The manual suggests inserting the head of a fired case in the counterbore and pushing the body of the case up against an "immovable" object to aid in getting the bolt to move rearwards if for some reason it won't move using the charging handle. It would be amusing if some engineer figured out that the bolt needs to be lightened up a bit after a bunch were manufactured and this was a workaround disguised as a feature.

I've worked with enough creative engineers to believe it may be for both...

 

[MCMXI]

Now that the payment cleared for the SIG MPX I sold on Gunbroker last week I have to say that I won't miss it one bit. It was one of the most frustrating firearms I've ever encountered and I'm still scratching my head over it. Hopefully the new owner is a lot happier with it. He certainly paid enough for it.

The USPS is determined to make me suffer. The TP9-N has been sitting at a sorting facility in NC for four days and only today started its journey to Montana. I'll be lucky to have it by the end of the week.

 

[MCMXI]

The TP9-N finally showed up today ... only took three weeks via USPS! I have an order in for the B&T proprietary suppressor but am not holding my breath.