Background check charges

[General Geoff]

Using your logic, if a city has a law that says stores must close at 10pm.......it aint a free market because of government.

Thats laughable.

Not laugable. It's true. By forcing retail stores to close at 10pm, the city government has just given all after-hours retail business to out-of-town stores. No, that is not a free market.


Now if the city is small enough or after-hours retail business is so slow that it doesn't economically support any businesses staying open after 10, and thus nobody is open by choice/sheer market forces, that is a free market.

 

[dogtown tom]

Not laugable. It's true. By forcing retail stores to close at 10pm, the city government has just given all after-hours retail business to out-of-town stores. No, that is not a free market.


Now if the city is small enough or after-hours retail business is so slow that it doesn't economically support any businesses staying open after 10, and thus nobody is open by choice/sheer market forces, that is a free market.

You assume that there are nearby stores.

Using your logic, no free market can exist ANYWHERE. The reason being governments in neighboring countries.
If the USA prohibited stores from being open past 10pm your answer would "but, but, but MEXICO!!! or Egypt!!! Their stores are open 24hrs!"

 

[.38 Special]

The shortest version is that "time is money". I run a small business where service is a great portion of our offerings - often enough, service is all that the customer needs or wants - and of course we charge for it. While background checks aren't exactly a "service" in the strictest sense - and may require little or no out-of-pocket expense by the FFL - they often are both necessary and time-consuming and so I cannot blame the FFL for charging for it.

Having said that, I do base at least some of my gun purchases on the fee charged for the check. Of course if is a rare used gun then the cost is what it is, but when looking for a place to handle a private transfer or an internet gun, I am far more likely to go with the place that charges $45 as opposed to $150. There, anyway, the free market still more-or-less applies.

 

[General Geoff]

You assume that there are nearby stores.

A market being free or not is not contingent upon neighboring markets. That city could be the only human populated area on the planet, and if the government prohibited stores from being open after 10pm, it's still not a free market.


As I said earlier, truly free markets in developed nations are vanishingly rare.

 

[dogtown tom]

A market being free or not is not contingent upon neighboring markets. That city could be the only human populated area on the planet, and if the government prohibited stores from being open after 10pm, it's still not a free market.


As I said earlier, truly free markets in developed nations are vanishingly rare.

So you agree with the idea that no free market can exist ANYWHERE. The reason being governments in neighboring countries. Got it.

 

[General Geoff]

So you agree with the idea that no free market can exist ANYWHERE. The reason being governments in neighboring countries. Got it.

Because of the highly-globalized marketplace for just about everything, yes I agree.

I maintain that the commercial firearms market is less free than most, however.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

...In those states where a state agency is the POC or "Point Of Contact", there may be a fee charged by the state agency that conducts that check. Tennessee for example, charges dealers $10 for each background check whether successful or not. ...

Tennessee runs a TICS Tennessee Instant Check System check for state RKBA disqualifications (I call it active wants and warrants) that are not permanent disqualifications under NICS, then they are the point of contact for the federal NICS background check. All for $10.

(Aside): Why I would not give that up and go back to what there was before:

This system replaced the city or county background check associated with the Tennessee Application for Permission to Purchase a Handgun. The dealer gave you a form in triplicate to fill out, you took it to the city police or county sheriff office. The police chief or sheriff had up to fifteen days to conduct a background check and approve or deny the application. Failure to respond in fifteen days was a default approval. I bought a Ruger Mark II pistol at a county gunshop, drove to the county sheriff office and turned in the triplicate forms, drove home; the next day, the gunshop called, the approved dealer and buyer copies had arrived in the morning mail, and I went to get my gun and buyers form at the shop. I bought a Grendel P10 pistol at a city gunshop, walked the forms to the police station, the clerk told me to wait, returned witth the dealers and buyers forms stamped no records found. It was a nice day, I got some exercise.

 

[dogtown tom]

Tennessee runs a TICS Tennessee Instant Check System check for state RKBA disqualifications (I call it active wants and warrants) that are not permanent disqualifications under NICS, then they are the point of contact for the federal NICS background check. All for $10.

(Aside): Why I would not give that up and go back to what there was before:

This system replaced the city or county background check associated with the Tennessee Application for Permission to Purchase a Handgun. The dealer gave you a form in triplicate to fill out, you took it to the city police or county sheriff office. The police chief or sheriff had up to fifteen days to conduct a background check and approve or deny the application. Failure to respond in fifteen days was a default approval. I bought a Ruger Mark II pistol at a county gunshop, drove to the county sheriff office and turned in the triplicate forms, drove home; the next day, the gunshop called, the approved dealer and buyer copies had arrived in the morning mail, and I went to get my gun and buyers form at the shop. I bought a Grendel P10 pistol at a city gunshop, walked the forms to the police station, the clerk told me to wait, returned witth the dealers and buyers forms stamped no records found. It was a nice day, I got some exercise.

Ive often wondered why Tennessee, a supposed "conservative state" allows TICS to continue to charge its residents for background checks. A service the FBI provides for free.

 

[irishlad]

No charge in Utah if you have a CCW.

 

[.308 Norma]

No charge in Utah if you have a CCW.

Is there actually a phone-in background check performed in Utah if you have a CCW license/permit? There isn't in your northern neighbor state - Idaho. And even before I had an Idaho CCW license, I was never charged for a background check when I bought a gun.
I've never been charged a "transfer fee" either. I guess "transfer fees" are a different thread though.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Well...like it or not, even though NICS itself is "free" (still paid for by taxes, you know), the employee doing the call is being paid for his time. And while it may only take a few minutes, it's STILL part of work he has to do in the process of making a sale.

 

[irishlad]

Is there actually a phone-in background check performed in Utah if you have a CCW license/permit? There isn't in your northern neighbor state - Idaho. And even before I had an Idaho CCW license, I was never charged for a background check when I bought a gun.
I've never been charged a "transfer fee" either. I guess "transfer fees" are a different thread though.

There is one. They can call in or an online one. They've always done an online for me. By the time I fill out the federal form, background is approved. The pawn shop/ LGS charges me $25 if I have a gun shipped to him. I always see if he can get it first. No transfer fee if he can get it.