Backpacking with a handgun.

[Balrog]

I am going to be in Yellowstone in the spring. In the so called "back country", and not so much in the tourist laden areas. Last time I did this, I had a S&W 44 Magnum Model 629 with 4 inch barrel.

Unfortunately, I no longer own that. My choices now are going to be a Ruger Vaquero New Model in 45 Colt or a Ruger Vaquero New Model in 357 Magnum.

Considering the location, which of these two would be a better choice, and what should I load into the gun I take?

 

[jmr40]

I'd buy a can of bear spray as my 1st line of defense.

Since the new models won't handle the hot 45 loads I'd choose the 357 with upper end 200 gr loads like those offered by DoubleTap or equivalent handloads.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

^^^^^this.

I would carry the 45 colt over the .357 mag but the bear spray would be a must. While shooting a grizzly with either on of your choices may lead to it's death, it will lead to your death long before it does the bears.

Use the bear spray first and the revolver for a last ditch effort.

 

[back40]

same here. bear spray. i wouldn't trust either of those handguns against a grizzly.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Well, now that the bear spray comments are in

I'd go with the .45 loaded as warm as the gun, and you will handle.

Several years ago I was there the second week that they were opened up in spring. When the grizzlies come out of hibernation they are very hungry and active. I accidentally stumbled into a juvenile that was intent on eating grass. I got a few pics but was frozen in place by awe. A ranger saw what was happening and politely advised me I needed to back up. That snapped me out of my gaze and I realized what I was doing and how stupid I was.

When I say juvenile, I mean about 8 feet tall and 700 lbs. I really doubt a .357 would have stopped it. I was 30 to 40 feet away. A .45 will cause more blood loss with a wider wound passage with proper ammo.

There are also moose everywhere. They are far more dangerous in fall but if you wander into one, I still think a .45 with hot ammo is the way to go. Lots of wolves around there too. Saw some in the Tetons to the south.

And yes, bear spray is the best first option.

Bring warm clothes. Parts of the park still had 6 and 7 feet of snow on the ground when I was there, and like I said, that was may. The Tetons were still pretty frozen over too.

 

[Desertrat357]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is this: one benefit to a handgun is you don't necessarily have to kill a bear. Yes there is bear spray, but it's affective range puts you way too close to the threat if in fact you are being charged. With a handgun, there is a possibility to fire a warning shot and avoid the rather nasty situation altogether. Is it a sure fire thing? Of course not, but it can work. Neither bear spray nor a sidearm are the ideal weapon when in bear country. But they are both better then nothing. My personal preference is the stoutest handgun I can carry comfortably and shoot accurately and a hard cast lead bullet pushing maximum velocity for whichever caliber. Just my two cents.

 

[Jaxondog]

Bear spray and the 45 colt loaded with some 265 gr. keith's SWC-FP with as much 2400 as that New Vaquero will handle should be enough, considering how good you can shoot it. You also know that gun will not handle the "Ruger Only Loads" I hope.

 

[SleazyRider]

So let's just say you shot a grizzly in Yellowstone because you were in fear for your life. Then what happens? How would the authorities react?

 

[greenmtnguy]

Another vote for a good size can of bear spray for EACH person in your group, and the stoutest hardcast lead flat point loads you and the 45 Colt New Vaq can handle accurately. It won't be foolproof, but it'll be better than a sharp stick.

 

[Kayaker 1960]

Bears

A few years ago my wife and I visited Yellowstone and Glacier National Parks. In Yellowstone I didn't see anyone open carrying a gun. Most folks, who got out on the trails had bear spray. Many people seemed to have some sort of bag or small pack within easy reach of their gun hand.
I had a can of bear spray and a Ruger SP101.
In Glacier N.P. my wife and I came around a bend in the trail and found ourselves looking at a "small" Grizzly about 15 yards away. The bear and I made eye contact for about 1 whole second, then he took off the other way.
In that very brief encounter I learned a few things. The wind was blowing pretty hard in our faces, we had been purposely making a lot of noise, talking and when we ran out of things to talk about we would sing. I'm sure the bear had trouble hearing us because of the wind, also, the bear spray would have been nearly useless do to the wind. I also very quickly decided that a .357 is not enough gun. Get close to a big bear and I'm sure you will agree. They are Very large and incredibly fast.
When I got home I found a nice S&W 629 for the next trip.

 

[mrdeltoid]

You're not going to drop a bear with either of those revolvers. It'll reach you and maul you before it is incapacitated. All you are doing is carrying extra weight.

Take spray. If you want a gun, take a concealed carry gun 9mm or larger. I take a Ruger LCR .357. My winter load-out, which is weight on body not just the pack, is 45 pounds.

I have crossed paths with a few bears and a lot of upset bull moose. Its people you need to worry about more than bears.

 

[wildchild2010]

Have a 12ga shotgun? May be a better option.

 

[wildchild2010]

So let's just say you shot a grizzly in Yellowstone because you were in fear for your life. Then what happens? How would the authorities react?

I would protect myself and family, worry about the BS after being safe. Hell in New York you can`t even defend yourself.

The guy that shot and killed a grizzly bear with a .45 ACP in Alaska few years and National Park nothing happened.

 

[Balrog]

I forgot about another choice… I have a Colt Delta Elite in 10mm….
Would I be better off with the 10mm?

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Absolutely take the 10mm if it is reliable and will handle hotter loads than your new vaquero. More ammo and better penetration.

Penetration is key with a big, dense critters. If the Ruger can handle much hotter loads than the 10mm, go with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SleazyRider
So let's just say you shot a grizzly in Yellowstone because you were in fear for your life. Then what happens? How would the authorities react?

And yes, there is a pretty good chance you'll be fined and or prosecuted if you shoot anything. Still worth it in my mind to save your life. Bear spray is still the best first option though. It is probably more effective, and will demonstrate you killed something as a last resort.

 

[greenmtnguy]

I wouldn't take the 10mm - heaviest load I know of for it is 220grn hardcast at about 1100 FPS, and you can easily do better than that with a New Vaquero (270gn @ 1100 FPS) as a Tier-II load (re: Brian Pierce article in Handloader Magazine). That is also, assuming that your 10mm is proven reliable with those loads and won't jam. Though, it does at least have greater ammo capacity and higher rate of fire. A 45 Colt 270 - 300 grain hardcast slug at a little over 1000 FPS will penetrate straight and for several feet in any animal, unless you hit the grizzly in the head. But only a rifle or shotgun is going to penetrate that skull from any angle

The likelihood that you will need a deterrent is slim, if you practice safe backpacing. And the likelihood that you have to shoot will be a fraction of that percentage that you can't use spray, noise, etc. But, if you need it, you really will need it and want to know that the firearm will function and fire every time you pull the trigger.

 

[Alemannic]

Here is a link to an article that demonstrates that a short barreled revolver with a magnum level handgun load is effective against grizzly bear:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/31/man-kills-charging-bear-with-454-casull/

This person used an Redhawk Alaskan in .454 Casull. The bear charge was very fast, and close-up and personal. I believe that a short barreled .44 mag revolver loaded with 300+ grain bullets at a minimum velocity of 1000-1100 ft/s is capable of stopping a grizzly bear attack a close range. I also believe that the .45 Long Colt loaded with heavy well constructed bullets at similar minimum velocities are also capable of stopping a grizzly bear attack.

http://handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=5

I read about another instance in Alaska where an Indian women was out picking berries of some sort with her two small children. A grizzly bear wandered too close to her two children so she apparently walked right up to this grizzly bear and stuck a small Beretta pistol into its ear and emptied the magazine, and killed this bear. While I find this event hard to believe myself, there were other witnesses present that saw her do this. Apparently, grizzly bears, like humans have very thin bone structure at the back of the ear canal.

Bear attacks are generally very sudden, and obviously at close range. Penetration into the brain or other areas of the central nervous system is critical. The small boutique ammunition companies like Garrett, Buffalo Bore, Underwood, Corbon, etc. all load heavy .44 mag, .45 LC, .454 Casull, etc. loads that should be effective enough at close range to potentially stop a bear attack. I also suggest that people look into using the 3 inch magnum 12 gauge Dduplek solid mild steel shotgun slugs that are now being sold here:

http://www.centuryarms.biz/products.asp?cat=120

A short barreled 12 GA shotgun with these solid steel slugs should also prove very effective at stopping grizzly bears at close range. These steel slugs are far more effective than soft lead Foster style slugs at penetrating hard bone like a grizzly's skull.

I will be carrying a short barreled .44 mag, .45 LC, or .454 Casull along with a short barreled 12 GA when I am traveling in Alaska for my own self-defense against close range bear attacks loaded with the proper style, well constructed bullets and slugs.

 

[hartcreek]

IN addition to the Bear Spray I would carry a pepper bomb. A pepper bomb works like a hand genade but dispences pepper spray. They are used for croud contro but you can buy them the cost $15. And of course the .357 since that is the best that you have.

 

[CraigC]

Firstly, ALL Vaqueros are New Models, utilizing the post-1973 New Model action. Are we talking about a large frame Vaquero or mid-frame New Vaquero?

If it's a New Vaquero, a 260gr Keith bullet at 1100fps is going to be much more effective than anything coming out of a .357 or 10mm. If it's a Vaquero, then as much bullet weight and velocity you can handle. I'd be thinking about 335's at 1200-1300fps.

 

[Water-Man]

Take the .45 and load it with hard cast. Pray that you don't need it.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

I wasn't aware people were allowed to have firearms in Yellowstone? Personally, in bear country, I'd take bear spray and a shotgun.

Laura

 

[WestKentucky]

Of the two either works well. Simply put you put a round in your buddy's leg so you can easily outrun him....I second the shotgun. If it comes down to it you have a lot more lead smacking meat-preferably skull-doing more damage and making a bigger hole to bleed from. Mossberg persuader would be my choice assuming you don't have an ar15 Beowulf pistol handy. With either buck or slug it's going to do more than agitate him like a .357 will when it stops short of the oilpump.

 

[ahtoxa]

Weight of shotgun would be prohibitive when backpacking. Bear spray is supposedly most effective in this case, but I have no personal experience with that. Just my two cents.

 

[typhun]

I wasn't aware people were allowed to have firearms in Yellowstone?

http://www.nps.gov/yell/parkmgmt/upload/gunsinparks_IMR_2-2010.pdf

 

[skidder]

I grew up and logged in bear country since I was knee high to a grasshopper. The bigger threat here in Montana are the cougars and wolves. My sister just lost two horses to cougar attacks and my Mother-in-law's neighbor recently lost their dog, a goat, and some chickens. Since the national, and local bunny huggers, have decided to turn NW Montana into a game preserve by planting wolves it has immensely upset the habitat of the deer, elk, moose, bears, and cougars. The cougars get chased off their kills by the wolves and they are moving closer to town. I've had one run in with a cougar and several with bears. The best method I've found with a stubborn bear is a warning shot over thier bow (or stern). I would never put my faith in just a can of pepper spray. One thing to consider with the pepper spray option. They do not work very well when fired into a breeze (found out the hard way). Most of the "pepper spray only" advice comes from armchair quarter backs and politically correct park employees who don't want people packing around those "evil" guns. I do carry pepper spray, but for me it is a second line of defense. Much easier to scare off a stubborn bear with a warning shot before it even gets in range of a can of pepper spray. Bears can read your confidence just like a dog. And I definitely have more confidence with a good "roscoe" by my side.

Although a 4" 44 would be a better option the OP mentioned a New Model Vaquero 357 or 45 Colt. One thing to consider is the smaller frame size of the New Model Vaquero. I don't think I would attempt "Ruger Only" loads in one of these guns, but the 357 on the same frame is stronger than most 357s. They can eat the +P+ Buffalo Bore loads for breakfast. And that loud crack of the 357 would come in handy for a warning shot. I recently purchased a 357 New Vaquero for hiking and it is one strong puppy. Here is a comparison of the cylinder next to my 4" GP100.