Bad experience with Barnes Triple-Shok X Bullets

[pre'64 Dan]

I've shot 168gr. xlc's, and had so so performance out of my '06. there is nothing like 180 gr. partitions for ANYTHING THAT WALKS. I agree that shot placement is what counts, and if you can't hit what you're aiming at, then don't shoot/hunt

 

[duckjihad]

I knew a guy who shot a devil dog with these things, TWICE, and the dog just grinned and walked away, crumpling grass as it went.......Oh, sorry. Wrong thread.

 

[MNgunhead]

Bad to the bone TSX's!!!

I have no experience with devil dogs, but I have shot quite a few deer. Last year I tried Barnes TSX 130's out of my 270 win for the first time. I shot two deer, both at 153 yards. The first was a broadside, high double lung hit. When I recovered from the recoil, the deer was gone. I quickly aimed at the second one that didn't know what just happened and again hit a bit high. The deer was quarting to me and the bullet entered high in the shoulder then hit the spine and traveled the entire length of the body and then turned down and broke the back leg inside the ham. That deer also dropped instantly. The bullet was recovered and showed full expansion just like the ad pictures. I wasn't too happy with how much good meat I destroyed, but I was very impressed with the amount of penetration. If the bullet hadn't hit the thigh bone, it would have blasted out the back. As for accuracy, they consitantly group in the 3/4" range out of that gun.

 

[Flintknapper]

I've had real good results with the TSX.

I would like to know just how many of the bullets were recovered though (and love to see pics), because on deer sized animals...complete pass throughs are the rule for most calibers suitable for deer hunting.

 

[MCgunner]

JMHO, but that's a lot of bullet for a piddlin' deer. It's more of a moose hunting bullet. I shoot 150 Nosler BT in .308 and go to 140 (as long as a lead bullet of 160 grains) in a Barnes for controlled expansion. I think this might have been your problem and like another poster says, I think you'd been better off with a 140 Barnes.

BTW, on hogs, that .30 caliber 140 expands even at .30-30 pistol velocities. I have used it out of my Contender.

 

[rcmodel]

Highly ineffective, very disappointing.

SO, did they kill the deer sized animals so you could look at the holes exit and estimate the expanded bullets size?

If so, the dead "deer size" animals indicate to me the bullets worked exactly as intended.

rc

 

[BADUNAME37]

Barnes DOES state in several places to check which weight bullet you would ORDINARILY use (like a lead soft point) and then drop to the next lower weight in a Triple Shock.

When I hear 7MM and 160 grain X bullets (TSX), what I understand of TSX's is that is way too heavy for what you were shooting. Perhaps you should have shot an elephant (or a rhino).

From what I have researched, these X bullets will literally go LENGTHWISE through the animal!

 

[GJgo]

As I've mentioned elsewhere on THR I've also had 100% DRT experiences with the (180) TSX in deer & elk with my 300 WSM at ranges from 50 yds out to about 300 yds. Well, ok, one cow was trotting at the time and made it about 50 feet.. I wish I could recover one to see how it opened up, but so far all I've recovered was tasty meat with no lead in it.

The only TSX I've ever seen recovered was a factory Federal 140gr 7mm-08 load my friend put in a cow elk at about 100 yds with her Remington model 788 (18"bbl). We found the picture perfect mushroom in the off-side hide. The other 2 cows I've seen her anchor with the same combination were pass throughs.

 

[shaggy430]

I can't comment on performance on game because in my only experience with Barnes bullets (Original X Bullets) they were highly inaccurate and fouled my barrel so bad that I would never ever buy another Barnes product again. I'll stick with my Partitions.

 

[Tom Held]

barnes bullets

I think some of the earlier threads were right on about the velocity needed with that bullet. This past year I had the opportunity to hunt plains game in Namibia and used the 180 grain Barnes TSX in a 300 Weatherby. Shooting off sticks I was fortunate to take 9 plains game animals including a 54" Kudu. Every animal with the exception of the Kudu was dropped in it's tracks (first shot on the Kukdu was too far back at 300 yards). I'm a BGE rifle shot (barely good enough). But the bullets performed very well. I recovered two bullets and they had picture perfect expansion. My PH and another hunter were very impressed with the bullet. That bullet in the Weatherby will print about 1 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards off a bench which I find acceptable for that caliber of rifle anc certainly good enough for a hunting rifle.

I suspect in a rifle with lower velocities that expansion might be a problem. My son took the same rifle to the Northwest Territories later and killed two nice caribou with the 160 grain TSX.

You should contact Randy Barnes or his daughter Jessica Brooks about the problem. They would want to know about it. I've found them to always be incredibly helpful and always willing to talk to hunters about their bullets.

I've also had very good luck with Nosler Partitions but they perform better in the Weatherby at distances beyond 200 yards when they start to lose velocity.

I've also used the Barnes TSX in a Wincheter 30:06 with very good results. Just my experience for what it's worth.

 

[MCgunner]

Accuracy is a gun to gun thing. My 7 mag is picky. It likes 150 game kings and for controlled expansion, it likes the 160 partitions. I tried 140 barnes in it and couldn't get decent groups. So, for controlled expansion, I'll stick with the Noslers. However, in my Remington M7 .308, the 140 barnes X (I think they've been discontinued) shot 1 MOA. I like the Nosler 150 BT for deer and thin skinned stuff, shoots 3/4 MOA, but the Barnes 140 has taken quite a few hogs for me in that rifle and they were all shoot through bang flops. The biggest I've taken was a tad over 200, though, nothing huge. But, I have confidence that rifle with the 140 would be up to the biggest hog I'll ever run across.

 

[GJgo]

Another thing to consider, that I've noticed in testing TSX in both 30 cal and .277 cal, is that the light-for-caliber bullets open up easier at any given velocity than the heavy-for-caliber ones do. Your 160gr 284 cal bullets are as big as they come for that cal, so it would fall within my experience that they're the hardest to open up.

As I mentioned earlier the 140gr 284 cal TSX opens up at 18" 7-08 velocities no problem, so I'd maybe try that or the 150gr (is there a 150?) in your 7 mag before giving up on them. Assuming they'll shoot, of course.

 

[Savage99]

Here is a report on TSX type bullets by John Barsness.

"To everybody who has shared their experiences with TSX's, thanks very much. Most of the time they will kill deer-sized game very well, especially in larger diameters like 7mm and .30. I was specificaly addressing my experience with the .25 caliber 100-grain TSX--which is considerable, both in the .257 Roberts and .257 Weatherby.

I have seen it do very well, in fact once saw it drop a 3x3 mule deer buck right now with a high lung shot at about 150 yards. But I have also seen some animals not drop so fast with similar shot placement.

The reason for our "disagreements" probably lies in the fact that I have seen a whole lot of game taken with TSX's. Most of the time they kill very well, but sometimes they do not, and when they don't the animal is likely to go a ways, in my experience further than with any other type of bullet.

I have been pacing off how far animals have gone after a solid double-lung hit for many years. Animals hit with Barnes X's (whether the old-style or TSX), Fail Safes, E-Tips or whatever "petal" type bullet have gone an average of just over 50 yards. Those hit with bullets that expand wider, or lose some weight, haven't gone as far.

The bullet that had dropped animals the quickest with lung shots has been the Berger VLD, at around 20 yards. Those averages include lung hits that drop animals instantly--and the highest percentage of instant drops also goes to the VLD, a bullet that normally comes completely apart, but only after penetrating a couple of inches.

I am primarily a meat hunter and do not deliberately aim for the shoulder/spine unless there is some real reason to drop it right there. But I have used that shot on a bunch of animals, and it doesn't take a TSX or other super-bullet to do the trick. I've done it with a bunch of bullets, including such "ordinary" bullets as the Hornady Interlock to the round-nosed Remington Core-Lokt.

All I am doing here is relate my experiences with various bullets. I've seen around 150 animals taken with TSX's, and my statements that it sometimes doesn't kill as quickly as wider-expanding lead cores are based on that experience.

If you are a TSX true believer, who's convinced that exit holes in the hide somehow kill quicker than massive destruction of the lungs, then you are also welcome to your opinion. You're also welcome to shoot shoulder-shoot all the deer you want. But I happen to disagree on both counts, and my disagreement is based on quite a bit of experience.

Please note that I NEVER said TSX's are bad bullets, anwyhere in this thread. They are very fine bullets, and paricularly good for certain jobs, especially on really big game. But I have not found them ideal on deer."
_________________________

 

[dougwx12]

TSX's on light skinned game, out of a 7 mag, and you recovered them to measure expansion?!?!?

All my TSX kills have been a tiny entrance, tiny exit, and a jellied path in between thicker than my arm. Never found a bullet to look at.

Definitely a bullet for the "light and fast" crowd.

 

[Flyboy]

There seems to be a consensus on the fast-and-light theory for small- and medium-bore rifles, but what about big-bore? Has anybody played with the TSX in .45-70? Fantastic hog caliber, but we're dropping from the 2700 FPS class to the 1700 FPS class. Any thoughts?

 

[Todd1700]

What is the big deal about bullet expansion?

Well most states consider it a fairly big deal, which is why FMJ bullets are illegal in almost all of them.

If you are going to shoot animals with a large calibers like a .375 and up then yes, expansion might not be as important because even a caliber size hole all the way through with those big bullets is a pretty big hole. But if your bullet is starting off at 27, 28 or 30 caliber in size then it needs to expand to put animals on the ground quicker.

If you put it in the right place, you won't need much of a blood trail because the animal won't be far from where you plugged it.

The only shot that will drop an animal on the spot every time is a brain or spinal cord hit.

One of my best friends used Barnes TSX's one season out of his 7mm Mag. (Sorry I do not remember what weight bullet) I helped him recover some of the deer he shot. I have never seen deer hit more perfectly right behind the shoulder run so far.

Forget that 50 yard average mentioned by John Barnes in a post above. In our experience it was more like over a 100. Why is that a big deal? Maybe it isn't if you are hunting on open plains. But you shoot a deer just before dark, that turns and runs back into one of our finest Alabama briar thickets where visibility is about 3 feet. Then you plunge into that thicket after him, in the dark, with a flashlight, trying to follow a blood trail leaking out of only a caliber size hole. When you find him after an hour search, then drag him back 100 plus yards through that same thicket, you will, as you stand there bleeding from 50 places you used to have skin, come to understand the "Big Deal" about putting animals on the ground a bit quicker.

After two such experiences I offered him 30 bucks to throw all of them he had left away. Fortunately he was way ahead of me and ditched them without need of a bribe.

I've said it before and I'll say it again there is no need for "premium" bullets for deer size game.

Amen. Standard cup and core lead bullets are more than enough for the biggest whitetail to ever draw breath on Gods green earth. Many of these premium bullets are just too tough for whitetails.

 

[hardluk1]

I like the X bullets for what they are made for ,takeing down tough game buy makeing shots at bone. Shoot at the shoulders of any thing with a barnes and it will act like it should but shoot at the heart lung area and expect it to do as several other new copy cat bullets will do ,punch a real nice hole and exit. Use a quick opening bullet of some type of deer and keep the X for elk, moose, bear. caribou, hogs. Some thing you want to drop now by breaking the shoulders. I still use them in a 150gr x 308 for hog and have no problems and I have shot one mule deer in the rear ham and found the bullet under the skin in the frount shoulder with my 7mm 140gr rem mag That was 52" of damage done. Broke ribs back bone and one fine back strap but that deer went not one step . So much for changeing my elk bullet for a deer load. I shoot 140 gr sst for deer or a BT and deer drop with in several feet and never have to look for them.

 

[Flintknapper]

Flyboy wrote:

There seems to be a consensus on the fast-and-light theory for small- and medium-bore rifles, but what about big-bore? Has anybody played with the TSX in .45-70? Fantastic hog caliber, but we're dropping from the 2700 FPS class to the 1700 FPS class. Any thoughts?

If you reload…this might work well for you:

http://barnesbullets.myshopify.com/products/458-300-gr-ttsx-bt-458-socom

WARNING: Not for lever guns! It has a hard polymer tip.

It was developed for the .458 SOCOM (that is what I use it for), but should work well in the .45/70 as well (it expands reliably at velocities as low as 1,000 fps).

 

[627PCFan]

+1 Pumpkinheaver. Nothing wrong with elcheapo Core-lokts. You dont need fused and bonded, welded and guilded, epoxy and posion tipped super bullets for deer.

 

[GJgo]

Call me crazy, but maybe some of the issue is people using magnum rifles with CXP3 class bullets on CXP2 class game. It goes through the deer to fast to open up. If all you have is a magnum rifle (say in 7mm), try a load using the 120 grain TSX and don't push it to warp speed. I bet the same CXP2 class critters will fall over. It's all about the right tool for the job, fellas.

 

[Boxhead]

Well I can only speak from actual results so I offer this.

A BC moose taken at 180 yards with a 225 gr TSX from my 35 Whelen. Muzzle velocity 2700 fps with the bullet recovered after passing through just behind the near and off shoulders, just under the hide. Same load took a bull elk straight on facing me, never found the bullet.



A bull elk taken at 280 yards with a 185 gr TSX from my 338-06. Muzzle velocity was 2900 fps with the bullet recovered after passing just behind the near shoulder and centering the off one. Just under the hide.



The following are the 250 gr X from my 9.3x62 at 2650 fps. Critters, left to right, a gemsbuck at 75 yards, a "Texas heart shot" on a bushbuck at 130 yards, two kudu, a bull and the unfortunate cow that ran by behind him at 150 yards and an eland at 40 yards.





Some of the critters mentioned above.

img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1055658/BCHunt021.JPG

img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1055658/BCHunt045.JPG

img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1055658/PA120075.JPG

img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1055658/scan0001.jpg

 

[lopezni]

you gotta consider at the velocities of the 7mm, the bullet, especially a solid copper bullet, is not going to have much of a chance to expand. If you are going to use a 7mag, use a ballistic tip, jacketed lead bullet to ensure that you will get expansion. Plus, I believe Barnes TSX's are marketed toward animals like Elk.