Ball mill or tumbler?

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bullseye308

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Is there a reason I shouldn't use a tumbler as a ball mill to mill powder in? I finally got everything in to make some powder and don't yet have a ball mill and would like not to have to get one. Using lead round balls and a frankford arsenal tumbler was to be the plan unless someone can tell me why it would not be a good idea or safe.

I have tried to figure out how it wouldn't work and haven't had any luck. Figured I'd ask the knowledge base here and see what I am missing.

BTW, tumbler has a good tight seal for the lid and on the shaft, so I wouldn't expect any powder to make it to the motor.
 
Whale crap.:banghead: Static was what I was missing. Thanks, that's why I ask first. I tend to overlook the simple stuff. :banghead: I guess I will "borrow" the old man's harbor freight "ball mill" tomorrow. ;)
 
I'll just pick up on a mortar and pestal

Won't do it for me. I have tendonitis in both wrists, elbows, and shoulders and have already had carpal tunnel surgery. I'm just happy to be able to shoot a little now and again. Mortar & pestle is like torture. I would like to do it old school, but....no.
 
Well, I ordered one for 8 bucks including shipping. I don't have sieves, yet. Figure to pick up a couple of sieves before I guy chemicals or try to make any willow charcoal or anything. I'm buying this stuff one step at a time. If I wanna speed it up, I might get a ball mill in the future. I can probably make all I need with the mortar and pestal, though. Something to do while I watch Glenn Beck in the afternoon. :D I'm glad I don't have the joint problems in my arms. I have a bum back and my knees have been acting up on me, but I can still draw a bow and shoot just fine. Sounds like what you got, I'd just have to give up the bow.
 
I just finished my first batch, I used a ball mill but have heard about the tumbler, I have not heard of any issues with them. Get a sieve a bit larger then a standard kitchen sieve, I just corned mine through one and the grains were beautiful, but small. I would put it in the 3-4f category. Wish they were 100% bigger if that makes any sense. Also DO NOT OVER WET YOU GREEN POWDER. It sucks and happens quickly. I would even do it in half batches in case you over wet the first. Just dampen with a spray bottle and stir till the powder starts to grain by itself. When it does that you are there, go ahead and push it through the sieve. The harbor freight ball mill unit did a pound easily size wise.
 
I've been thinking about using the Harbor Freight rotary tumbler, filled with a bunch of lead balls. The drums are kind of a rubbery plastic.
 
Yup, it sure is easy to get it a bit too wet. On the other hand all ya gotta do is let it dry and re-tumble. Been there, done that a time or two.
 
Alemonkey, I know a man who uses one of those. He hasn't had any problems that I ever heard about. His lead media is round balls, about .58 caliber. (well, maybe .54 or .56 caliber. pretty damn big anyway) The reason I know is because I have a good ball mill with an extra barrel and my screens and stuff I bought a few years ago. It's still in the box and put away. Every once in a while I think about it and remind myself that some day I'm going to make some powder. I never have. Probably never will. He tried to buy it since I never use it but I wouldn't sell it or trade it. Anyway, he's a friend so all that is how come I know about the unit he has. He uses it on a regular basis....
 
I have heard that plastic builds a static charge,and that's dangerous around black powder.Something to consider.

Is it just in the media and cases, or is there static buildup in the tumbler, too? If it's in the tumbler surface, a grounding wire should take care of it, and if you're milling individual ingredients, I wouldn't worry all that much, about static discharge.
 
Thanks GOTC. I've heard of people using that model too and never heard of a problem. Plus, while you're milling the powder it's wet, right? So that should drastically reduce the chance of ignition.

Might have to order some chemicals come payday tomorrow......
 
Wouldn't ordering some of those chemicals put you on Nepolitano's domestic bad guys list?




I am in the group of "Who Cares". If that is the case then guys buying 20lbs of gunpowder over the net are on the same list. Most of the chemicals used are used for pyrotechnics and there are a lot of hobbies out there that do that. Besides I am not doing anything wrong with it, just shooting guns.

I got to shoot some of mine today up against the Goex 3F, and instead of typing it again I'll just post what I did over at TFL.

"Got to take my first batch out and shoot it. I guess I lost my virginity in both respects, shooting a black powder revolver and using my own homemade powder. I met a buddy of mine whom is a bit more experienced than I in black powder so I had good help.

Some initial thoughts, shooting the 51 Colt and the 58 Remy for the first time was great, and much easier than I thought. I could not hit the broad side of a barn if I tried, which concerns me no matter what I was shooting with.

I first ran a couple of cylinders of Goex 3f black powder through them at the recommended 22 and 35 grain measurements respectively. Man there is a difference in bang there.

I then loaded some of my own powder to those same measurements. They went bang but were anemic as everything I read on the net said they would be, do to the different densities. I increased the amounts as I went up, sometimes just loading one cylinder. The .44 was taking 50 grains of the homemade and was getting close to the 35 of the Goex, and I was out of cylinder. I ran out of space in the cylinder in the .36 before it got close to a full load.

I did note that my grains were much larger then Goex 3f, so my thoughts are this. I am going to grind this stuff down finer. That and it probably hindered that I corned it yesterday and I am sure there was still some moisture in the powder. The nice part of the full cylinders is it fit the wad and ball right at the top which was nice, felt like a good compression of the powder.

All in all I walked away from the session feeling pretty good about my home brew. I think with a little tweaking it will be a competitive propellant. My buddy was just impressed that it worked and I was punching holes in the target downrange. I think maybe he even got a bit excited about it. The Homemade made considerable more smoke as well, it was kind of cool to see big smoke rings come out of the end of the barrel as it went off.

This black powder revolver thing is cool.............."
 
I'm with Nate....screw big brother.... he can kiss where I can't.:cuss:

Hmm, wonder if I sieve it to 3F if it'll work a little closer to 2F Goex in a rifle? I'll just have to break out my chronograph when the time comes and quantify some of this stuff. Might be a while, but when I get a batch to test, I'll post some results. I don't have any goex, though, so I'll be comparing it to Pyrodex RS.
 
Well, I just ordered the ingredients last night from www.ihaveadotcom.com. Got this confirmation email:

Thanks for shopping with us today! I will notify the shipping department to put their coloring books away and get your order packed. Hopefully, they remember to not use the crayons to print your shipping label.
The following are the details of your order.

That's pretty darn funny, gotta love a sense of humor like that.
 
alemonkey +1 for your qouted email shipping humor.

Love it.

One question.

How big are these things? Ive in mind one mill that is like about 10 feet across using 3 foot stone wheels. Is that what we are dealing with?
 
How big are these things? Ive in mind one mill that is like about 10 feet across using 3 foot stone wheels. Is that what we are dealing with?




No, no think rock tumbler. 12" long by 5" wide and 7" high perhaps. Biggest piece of equipment one needs.
 
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