Ballistic gelatin test results (07MAR07) - .357 Magnum

[Brass Fetcher]

Firearm - .357 Magnum revolver with 4.0" barrel length

Cartridge - .357 Magnum Federal Premium Personal Defense, 130gr Hydra-Shok JHP (PD357HS2)

Block calibration - 596 ft/sec at 11.4cm penetration

Shot impacted the block at 1417 ft/sec, penetrated to 13.6". Sizeable fragments broke off from the main penetration track and penetrated to 8.5", 10.1" and 12.8".

Bullet core recovered at 0.531" average diameter.

 

[Jim March]

Oh my. That's not good.

I'd rather shoot a CorBon DXP 125gr @1,200fps, get less recoil and penetration, but also get reliable expansion up around .65 - .70 every time. Or drive a Gold Dot 135 at 1,150-1,200ish in the "light magnum".

This looks like a badly designed round over-driven past it's "sweet spot". Probably work OK at 100-200fps slower, with less recoil and fanfare.

 

[earplug]

Jim March question

The test shows a pretty good track of destruction for 13 inches.
The round may have great promise for the many J frame .357 with less then 4 inch barrels.
Shredded bullet parts go on to damage tissue etc.
Total penetration is usable for human defence.
What does your Cor-bon round do better?
I'm not a die hard expansion activist.

 

[GunNut]

You don't use denim or any kind of material prior to entering the block correct?


If you did the round probably would have held together better, but then again it would probably have really over penetrated.

 

[kmrcstintn]

WOW!!! I thought that the newer designs were meant to hold together...

I know the older lead tipped hollowpoints were designed to fragment with a complete energy dump into the target...this Hydrashok seems to forget it is a newer design...oh well, as long as it does the job!

Thank you for sharing !

 

[Jim March]

I will admit that the nose shredding seen here is a bit different from the usual pattern in that it's kicked out the pieces some. Usually they dribble back along the wound path, pretty much staying in the path of the main core projectile and not adding much to the damage.

This ONE shot seems to show some "frangible effect" something like the spray seen from a Glaser. But, it could be a fluke, or could change a lot based on clothing. The fact that the round came seriously unglued can't be disputed and I don't consider .53cal much expansion from a 357.

As to the "13 inches of damage". What you're seeing is a temporary stretch cavity...a pretty classic one. There are a LOT of people saying that with projectiles under 2,000fps the temporary stretch cavity doesn't mean that much unless we're talking about the most delicate human tissues: brain, liver, maybe kidney or spleen. Even then, enough people survive headshots that I suspect it's damned limited. Muscle tissue, the bigger veins and arteries, certainly bone will be unaffected. My reading says they're right, and that only "direct bullet contact" really matters in most shootings.

Which leads to an "expansion is important" mindset.

I believe the round should stay in one piece as much as possible, which is why I'm a big fan of the Gold Dot and DPX/Barnes-X all-copper hollowpoints, and the lead hollowpoints when driven inside their speed envelope (850 - 1,000 range or maybe a tad more). Or the XTPs when driven fast enough for their heavier brass jacket to open. All four are famous for staying in one piece and expanding.

Get somewhere up past 2,000fps and hydrostatic shock kicks in - and THEN the "temporary stretch cavity" turns into fist-size (or more) areas of shredded tissue.

(NOTE: The round metal piece at around the 25.5" mark is a calibration BB - it's too round to be a fragment?)

 

[Steve C]

I believe the round should stay in one piece as much as possible, which is why I'm a big fan of the Gold Dot and DPX/Barnes-X all-copper hollowpoints, and the lead hollowpoints when driven inside their speed envelope (850 - 1,000 range or maybe a tad more). Or the XTPs when driven fast enough for their heavier brass jacket to open. All four are famous for staying in one piece and expanding.

One of the main things that made the 125 gr .357 mag load so potent a man stopper is the fact that the exposed lead portion of the bullet does fragment into several large flakes of lead that disperse, cutting through veins and other vital organs while the main section of the bullet continues on providing the penetration. . The effect is greater bleeding and tissue damage. There are only 3 ways to physically stop a person: CNS disruption, skeletal destruction, and circulatory collapse. A partially fragmenting bullet is much more effective in the first and the later than a bullet witch remains in one piece.

 

[Jim March]

Except that the flakes usually aren't "flung out".

If they ARE reliably "flung" then yeah, you've got a semi-frangible with a JHP main "deep punch" projectile.

BUT: the "gold standard" in classic 125gr full-house 357s is that primitive old Remington semi-jacketed. And all the data I've seen on it shows expansion way past .53"...more like .65...

Are those flaking any? I can't recall...

 

[asknight]

I'd say that's decent penetration and expansion for a 130gr soft hollowpoint at over 1400fps but my attitude changes when I compare the 130gr HS to other 140 and 158gr loads. Though the PD357HS2 is touted and advertised for it's rapid expansion it is NOT an HST. It's a regular old HydraShok that's still being marketed under the Premium Personal Defense line.

That 130gr load would probably be the cat's meow from a snubby, but I'll stick with tougher bullets like the HST, DPX, or Gold Dot in a load where the projectile is at least 140grs and preferably 158, with a velocity in the 1250-1300 range for a 357.

 

[Rangie]

Hydra-sucks

 

[tostada]

WOW!!! I thought that the newer designs were meant to hold together...

I know the older lead tipped hollowpoints were designed to fragment with a complete energy dump into the target...this Hydrashok seems to forget it is a newer design...oh well, as long as it does the job!

Thank you for sharing !

Hydra-Shok was introduced in 1989. It's not that new.

 

[Brass Fetcher]

That is the calibration BB at ~ 25.5" on the ruler. I can't universally say that I don't like the 'Personal defense hydra-shok' line from Federal - it is the only decent bullet in .380ACP that I have found for the Kel-Tec P3AT (2.75" barrel length) - goes 12" and expands (small diameter, but still expands to something like 0.47"). Nothing else I've tested comes close in terms of acceptability.

I think this would be a winner if only the bullet held together. I was expecting 9x19mm type velocity, being a 'low recoil' load - it came as a big surprise when the chronograph screen read in the 1400's ft/sec! The heavy loaded, straight-up Hydrashok in this caliber should be very good.

 

[Cosmoline]

A request: Try some 180 HP's next time. Nobody ever tests the heavy .357 HP's. In contrast, the light weight .357's get a ton of testing. I'd be extremely curious to see 180 HP performance out of a long barrel blackhawk or carbine. Hornady makes a custom hunting load with XTP bullets in this weight. And of course Winchester used to make heavy black talons in 180.

 

[_N4Z_]

yes

I would like to second Cosmolines request for a 180gr .357mag hp test with a 6" barrel. Curious about 158gr launching from a 6" too.

 

[floridaboy]

I second the 180 gr from a six inch barrel.
My 686 thirds it.

 

[Brass Fetcher]

I would like to test a 180gr bullet - at ~ 1100 ft/sec, the ballistic efficiency of this cartridge has the potential to be substantially higher than the lighter bullets at 1400 ft/sec, etc.

Anyways. Here is my situation - I started shooting gelatin as a hobby, found that soon I was shooting all my guns (all 4 of them) and my friends guns into gelatin blocks. It is lots of fun. Then I started my website as a way to share what I found with each test.

Lots of people think that I am a for-profit business, when in fact, it is just me running the website, arranging all of the tests (which, in the case of a caliber other than .22lr, .45ACP, 12 gauge and .223rem, is someone elses gun and ammunition), and finally making sure that the lead meets the gelatin in the right way. Basically, I choose the name Brass Fetcher because I like to pick up my .45ACP brass (and other peoples!!!!) to reload - and I had to name the website something. www.JohnsGelatinTesting.com bores me as I type it - I doubt that anyone could remember it either as my name is common.

So - I am dependant upon other shooters, mainly for the usage of their firearm, but usually I have to buy the ammunition for the tests too. As is unfortunately too often the case, the ammunition that they had on hand was either a 'Mega Death Shock' bullet, that will penetrate 2-3" or something like FMJ, with not much in between. It looks like a fellow THR member, Shadan7, is 'footing the bill' for much of the gelatin that I will be using in the foreseeable future - but I appreciate your donations for those $25 boxes of premium defensive ammunition and the test materials, such as ice, sheet steel and drywall.

I can only accomodate the tests that I have money to pay for!

JE223