Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Ballistics Questions (spawned from Peltier thread)

Discussion in 'Legal' started by BerettaNut92, Jun 21, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,724
    Scenario.

    Me, Twoblink, 45R and Duke of Lawnchair have .308 rifles.

    Let's say we open fire on blue helmeted bears. The UN wants to fry me and my defense is that I shot *AT* the bears, but wasn't the one who shot them. (anyone who has seen me try to shoot a rifle will agree).

    From lookin' at my gun and shell casings, how can one tell the bullets downrange that ventilated the bears were mine and not from the other guys' rifles?

    Will my defense fly? "I was there and I was shooting at them, but I wasn't the one who shot them."
     
  2. scubie02

    scubie02 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2003
    Messages:
    916
    Location:
    ny
    if the person who killed the bears walked up to them and shot them at point blank range, those casings would be on the ground there, as opposed to where you were all shooting from originally. They could look at the casings, examining fring pin strikes and scratch marks, and probably tell which of your rifles fired those rounds.
     
  3. auschip

    auschip Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2003
    Messages:
    1,032
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Not really, that just proves that one person walked up to an area and shot them. It still doesn't show any proof as to who actually killed them (unless it can be shown that the bear was alive before the close-in shot). Even if it can be proven that you didn't kill the bears, when you admit you shot *at* the Bears, couldn't they get you for attempted bearacide?
     
  4. taliv

    taliv Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    22,063
    attempted murder of blue helmeted bears is still a pretty serious offense
     
  5. Mr. James

    Mr. James Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Messages:
    469
    Location:
    NoVa, downwind of the miasmal swamp
    auschip,

    The proper legal term is "ursicide." :p
     
  6. auschip

    auschip Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2003
    Messages:
    1,032
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    But what if the bears are mutant zombie blue hatted bears? Pseudo-Necra-Ursiside? :neener:
     
  7. Infidel

    Infidel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    278
    Location:
    TX
    One can't tell from the shell casings, assuming all the rifles use the same ammo. But if one has one of the bullets that ventilated one of the bears, then one can tell if that bullet were fired from your rifle or from one of the other guys' rifles. If one has the rifles.
     
  8. scubie02

    scubie02 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2003
    Messages:
    916
    Location:
    ny
    true, you still couldn't prove who shot the bear at close range technically, just what gun of that bunch was used.
     
  9. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    10,755
    Location:
    Colorado Springs
    Doesn't matter ... you and your buddies will fry together.

    Much like if you robbed a bank and it was clear that YOU shot the teller and killed her, your buddy out in the get away car gets charged with her murder as well.
     
  10. rbernie
    • Contributing Member

    rbernie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2004
    Messages:
    20,450
    Location:
    Norra Texas
    In order to connect the dots, you have to have the weapon and the majority of the bullet at a minimum. The casing is helpful, but (as been pointed out) circumstantial in nature.

    The key here is that there's gotta be enough of the bullet left to examine for bore markings. If y'all are using VMAX or other fragmenting bullets, that might be a wee bit hard. But I hear that VMAXs don't work well on Pseudo-Necra-Ursus, so be careful.
     
  11. pbhome71

    pbhome71 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2003
    Messages:
    897
    I think that they will try to recreate the scene and look at trajectory of the projectile that hit and kill the bear.

    From there, they will see your relative position related to the projectile's path and see if you are the one that hit it.

    I don't think they will use the bullet, unless they can recover it.

    -Pat.
     
  12. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,724
    So what good will Peltier's defense of claiming to shoot AT them but not actually killing the Agents do?
     
  13. pbhome71

    pbhome71 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2003
    Messages:
    897
    I assume that they used the following conclusion (from:http://minneapolis.fbi.gov/peltier.htm)

     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page