Barrel Leading

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Black Cat

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My brother-in-law and I both shoot 9MM in different handguns. We both use wheel weights as casting material and we cast with Lee tumble lube molds in two different configurations in 124 grain size. we also use the Lee alox bullet lube. we are both experiencing heavy barrel leading. I use 4.0 gr of Win WSF for about 945 ft per/sec. I also have a 357and use a Lee 158 gr tumble lube mold and get no leading. Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Black Cat
 
Black Cat,
Welcome to the forum...

First question, where in the barrel is the lead? If it's near the back the bullet is probably too soft for the velocities and pressures you are generating. I have a feeling though it's near the front of the barrel, something like the last inch or so. That happens when the lube gives out before the bullet leaves the barrel. I'm guessing this is the case because you are telling us you get no leading with your .38 Special ammo. That ammo will generate less pressure than 9mm ammo so that's why no leading.

If you are actually getting the lead deposits at the end of your barrel you will need to do one of the following, slow down the bullet, change lube or somehow add more of the lube you're using to solve the problem. If the leading is less than an inch from the end of the barrel it's possible a second coating of that liquid lube just might fix the problem.

Please keep us updated and good luck fixing the problem...
 
See Lee's link below for trouble shooting help.
joe1944usa
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The first thing I'd try is to discontinue the tumble lubing and size/lube with Tamarack. It's the NRA formula of 50 percent Alox and 50 percent Beeswax.

I use linotype for the 9MM, but everything else I cast is wheelweights. Tamarack works very well, as does Rooster labs "Zambini Red" and Thompson's Blue Angel.
 
Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.
Make sure you are belling the case mouth enough it doesn't shave the lube off the bullet.

Make sure you are not taper crimping too much, and squeezing the bullet undersize for the bore.

rc
 
The load you are using is pretty mild and not very high pressure so my guess is a size problem. Have you slugged the barrel?? Is your bullet at least groove size or preferably .001 over groove size? When you taper crimp are you just barely turning back the case bell (good) or really giving it a good healthy crimp(bad)? Pull a bullet after it's loaded, is it still .001" over groove?? Should be! My advice, slug the bore, pull a bullet. That should give you your answer.
 
I use the Lee push through sizer and it helps cut back the diameter to the right size. Try the .355 for 9mm and the .356 for the .357. I didn't size the bullets the first few castings to see how consistant the mold was, and was getting leading in the barrel too. Now, I fire up a pie pan full of 3 parts Canning Wax, 1 part petroleum jelly, and a tube of Lee Liquid Alox. I actually dip the bullets in the wax with a pair of needle nose to cut down on the extra lube wasted on the cone. I let the waxes cool and then push them through the lee sizing die. You might try the different sizes though, it will help with the seating and the rest of the semi auto problems.

For the .357, sounds like the bullet is actually fitting in the barrel with the tumble lube covering the whole bullet. Most people use gas checks on the .357 too, it cuts alot of the lead out when sizing the bullet and such. It's not velocity, but size of lead. There should be enough antimony and tin in the lead from the tire weights. You could add an ounce of tin solder per pound of lead and keep the heat up to keep it mixed. You might also try fluxing the mix when you're casting it, with some bees wax. But, the actual bullet size is what makes it lead out the barrel on the 9mm.
 
That is a very light load. First thing I would try is more powder to get the pressure up and see what happens.

it helps cut back the diameter to the right size. Try the .355 for 9mm and the .356 for the .357.
In general lead for 9MM should be at least .356, and .357 Mag should be at least .358. The 9MM bullets should fit the bore and the .357 bullets should fit the throats.

Welcome to THR Black Cat
 
Your bullet is too soft. I was running a very similar load and having lots of leading and poor accuracy. Then I started shooting paper and realized I was keyholing bad. My bullet was too soft and was stripping out in the rifling. like788ham said, add some antimony, or tin. try some lead free solder. And you're casting and dropping right into water right?
 
I really don't think the bullet is too soft. He's running the bullet under 1000 fps so anything between 10 BHN and 12 BHN is perfectly fine. Straight wheel weights are easily 12 BHN or just a little more. I'm leaning on the side of bullet sizing or a lube problem. Again, 945 fps isn't fast enough to cause leading from wheel weight alloy.
 
Hi. Has to be the alloy. 4.0 of WSF is the starting load for a 124 grain cast bullet. Leading is normally caused by driving a cast bullet too fast. Like 788Ham says, add some antimony.
 
While driving lead too fast can certainly cause leading, it is more often caused by not sealing the bore/throats. The alloy is more than hard enough for that light load. Bump up the charge.
 
I don't have a burn rate chart in front of me, but I supposed the powder could be too fast. I'll also ask what 9mm are you shooting through? Something with polygonal rifling?
 
I don't have a burn rate chart in front of me, but I supposed the powder could be too fast.
WSF is slower burning on the chart as far as pistol powders go. As many suggested, I would try a higher powder charge. Hodgdon website lists 4.0 gr as starting load (although for .355" diameter bullet at longer 1.169" OAL). Also, do you have any faster powder? For 9mm, I use W231/HP38 and faster.

124 GR. LEAD RN Winchester WSF .355" OAL 1.169" Start 4.0 gr (945 fps) Max 4.7 gr (1055 fps)
From Hodgdon's Powder Burn Rate Chart:

Alliant Promo
Hodgdon CLAYS
Alliant Bullseye
Hodgdon TITEGROUP
Alliant Green Dot
Winchester WST
VihtaVuori N320
Accurate Arms No. 2
Hodgdon HP-38
Winchester 231
Alliant Unique
Hodgdon UNIVERSAL
Alliant Power Pistol
VihtaVuori N330
Alliant Herco
Winchester WSF
Accurate Arms No. 5
Hodgdon HS-6
 
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