Basic ammo load for SHTF

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Any of you guys remember when we went into Afganistan the piles and piles of unused ammo in caves??

If government gets involved you can kiss all your stockpileing goodbye and if it's just a local deal most of them will be over in less than 20 rounds. If you can't carry it then you probably won't be back to pick it up later, somebody else will pack it off (assumeing you lived through it).

jj
 
Lets Avoid the Koolaid and look at this Objectively... Nobody can Honestly say the AR family of weapons is Reliable unless they have Little to No real world experience with them..

DID explains the effort, the issues, and the options. The latest developments? The M4 and 3 competitors, including one M4 variant that can be converted from existing rifles, come out of a sandstorm reliability test – and the M4 finishes dead last, with more than 3.5x more jams than the 3rd place finisher. But the US Army publicly says that it doesn’t care. Low-grade political pressure has continued on Capitol Hill, and the Army appears to be backtracking now, with a competition that may even be open to all calibers… but is their latest information request to industry serious, or a replay of the practices cited in the DoD IG’s 2006 report?
“The executive summary said that M16s and M4s “functioned reliably” in the combat zone as long as “soldiers conducted daily operator maintenance and applied a light coat of lubricant.”
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-m4-carbine-controversy-03289/

How the Military covers up the Failure (Besides Colt Lowering the price to prevent them from buying Better)
But in a July 23 story, Army Times reported that the M4 suffered 678 of these failures in test two, citing the test briefing document a congressional source said he received from the Army. http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2007/12/army_M4numbers_071227w/

Typical horror story of M4's in action
Once behind cover, Self tried to fire again, but his weapon jammed.

Instinctively, he tried to fix it with “immediate action,” a drill he’d practiced countless times.

“I pulled my charging handle back, and there was a round stuck in the chamber,” he recalled.

Like the rest of his men, Self always carried a cleaning rod zip-tied to the side of his weapon in case it failed to extract a round from the chamber.

“There was only one good way to get it out and that’s to ram it out with a cleaning rod,” he said. “I started to knock the round out by pushing the rod down the barrel, and it broke off. There was nothing I could do with it after that.”
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/02/atCarbine070219/

The Simple fact of the matter is.. In a SHTF situation, maintenance, cleaning, Lube, parts etc will not be common place. Harsh conditions and constant pressure will be. Couple that with a Varmint caliber.. and it's just not the recipe I would want to count on to keep my family alive. There are Much better weapons available..

Pulse, I believe what he Meant to say is they come in LAST in All reliability trials the military and private companies have done.. But what do the Facts matter ? lol


http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/02/atCarbine070219/
 
I look at the SHTF ammo the easy way.

For a riot, dig-in-and-stay situation, I have a can of 7.62x54r, and will be filling a can with x39. And that will hold me, entrenched.

For the proper, SHTF, OMG run! siutation, pick your favorite rifle and pistol or two. Fill, say, five mags for the pistol, and a single magazine pouch full for your rifle, plus one in.

That will be plenty. If you need more than that, you're dead anyway. in an AK's case, five magazines means you'll either stay alive long enough to trade for more, or overcome anything you do have to shoot at, and take that guy's.
 
Just because the economic system was totally broke and most folks had lost everything they had didn't mean that the people became looters and predators. Social scientists would tell us that we are more civilized as a people today. We are a kinder, gentler, softer, folk than we were 75 years ago. We didn't revert to an animal mentality then, why would we do so now?

LOL. Do you really believe that? Open your eyes. The fabric of our society is falling apart. Families are no longer intact. Parents are no longer honored by their children. Teachers are no longer respected by students in school. People behave like animals and resort to looting because of a simple hurricane. We have things like "road rage". An employee of Walmart was trampled to death...to death mind you...all because a greedy bunch of folks wanted to save a few dollars. Our country is more polarized more than ever. If SHTF, the ethical and moral code that kept the masses well behaved in the 1930s depression will simply not be there today.

Back to the original post... my advice is to buy as much ammo now. No amount is too much. (So long as it is not affecting your ability to pay your bills.) Why? Ammo prices is only bound to go up in price. Why pay tomorrow's higher prices...if you can buy at today's cheaper price. You do plan on training with your weapon the rest of your life...don't you???

It's simply an issue of economics (not necessarily of some Doomsday paranoia.) Buy and stock up now...or pay much much higher price tomorrow.
 
Just because the economic system was totally broke and most folks had lost everything they had didn't mean that the people became looters and predators. Social scientists would tell us that we are more civilized as a people today. We are a kinder, gentler, softer, folk than we were 75 years ago. We didn't revert to an animal mentality then, why would we do so now?

I bet those people down on the border that are getting their heads cut off sure are happy about the kind and gentle part.

lol
lol

jj
 
Having been observing the social dynamics on the west coast for a few decades, I would say that we are decaying as does any nation where free speech is replaced with politically correct double-speak, industriousness replaced with entitlement, free markets with crony capitalism / socialism; a nation which is overrun with immigrants that glorify their extraction rather than assimilate.

It takes but a brief look at the crime statistics and the street "culture" and the riots/upheavals from the 60's onward to infer that, in a SHTF situation in an area with a large concentration of blacks and/or latinos, everyone else will be under assault. Such is the decades-long statistical reality of inter-racial crime, and such has been the history of rioting under very mild SHTF conditions.

Does the white minority in Detroit riot and burn black neighborhoods, or indeed does a white majority in some other city? Do the Chinese riot and loot San Francisco or LA, or do Middle Easterners burn Dearborn? No need to further belabor the obvious.

LA was on fire after the police mildly subdued a violent drug fiend who was successfully fighting them all off. That had about as serious a catalyst as the Raiders losing an important home game. Consider the catalyst on the scale of an economic disaster, where instead of NOLA flooding that impedes everyone, the streets are free and clear for whatever mayhem. Things have been / will be decidedly unwell for the bliss-ninny sheeple.

Perhaps such a consequence will come to be called the congenital stupidity / naivete bubble. As with the bubble from decades of obscene deficit spending, the decades of political correctness bull**** will blow up in the face of the very liberals who perpetrated it (though the elites will be ensconced in their gated communities and safe from the immediate effects of their handiwork).
 
The way I see it, is that any firefight with "Zombies"(whatever the hell they are!:rolleyes:), or NWO "Blue Helmets", or whoever else might pose a threat, won't last long.
If it's "Zombies", they'll probably run away after you whack one or two of them. If it's some sort of trained, government-backed military force, they'll blow you to smithereens unless you run like hell after you fire a few, hopefully effective, shots.
Either way, your engagements will be short.
Fortunately, I live way out in the boonies and I doubt I'll be fighting with anybody after TSHTF.
However, my idea of after TSHTF means a long-running food shortage. That means lots of .22 rimfire for food foraging.
I've always wondered if these SHTF ammo-hoarders will continue plinking after ammo becomes unavailable. :rolleyes:
 
Carry a basic load of 180 rnds so when you get killed others have ammo:banghead::neener::what:

jj
 
Ammo requirements are a function of your mission and situation, but just for fun.

Stationary position
2,000 rifle
1,000 pistol
2,000 .22

Mobile (on foot)
200 rifle
400 pistol
200 .22

BTW - my combat experience with the AR family of rifles has caused me to own HK and FAL rifles....
My bushmaster is a great target rifle though : )
 
mindwip said:
Lets see i just spent over $700 in ammo to what i had in stock so...

7000 of .22 it was cheap
900 of 7.62 X54r
2,500 of 9mm
100 of 30 cal soon to be 600
600 of 380
1,200 of 30-06


i have a lot of what i shoot the most, dont like having to stop at the store be fore i go to the range this solves the problem.

If i had to evac my house i am taking my 380 pistol and .22 rifle. Its light and enough for surviving. I have no grand dreams of carrying all that ammo!


You'll never hear me trying to talk anyone out of buying ammo but if you can't use it, what's the point of having it?
It's like buying shoes that don't fit or clothes that you'll never wear - just a waste of resources that could be better used for something else.
At one point I wanted to buy more ammo too. I had just sold a 9mm and thought it prudent to put the money back into "gun" stuff.
Then I realized that in my whole 28 years on this earth, I've never had to fire a single round of ammunition at another person, either in self-defense or otherwise.
But I have lived through a lot of power outages.
So I spent some money on a couple lanterns and some wool blankets.
Not as glamourous as a crate of AK ammo but AK ammo has pretty poor insulating qualities and it also won't keep you from breaking your shin on the couch while you're making a midnight trip to the toilet.

Just a little food for thought...

Back to your regularly scheduled thread.
 
I am in favor of several 1000's of each variety needed. Especially 22, since this could, in a bad situation, be your ultimate your ultimate food getter... and it is cheap...
 
I think all who believe there will be game to eat will be in for some very hungry times. Unless you live in an extremely remote area, the game will be gone in a month. Extra ammo is a luxury. Sufficient food is a necessity.

And, hey, I was just poking you all with a stick with my "kinder, gentler" post. As a retired LEO I know better than most what we have become as a society, and it grieves me. I was born in 1933, so I can remember when we were a very different people in a quite different country with a very different culture.

As far as ammo caches go, get what you think you will need, and that will depend on where you live and your vision of the future.

I think we are fast approaching a defining moment in our history. I am hoping that we will have the gumption to pull together, and if we don't, we will surly pull apart, and that situation could end in any of several scenarios, all of them unpleasant. I am glad that I am an old man.
 
I've got to agree with Owlhoot. I'm not as old as him, but I've been thru a few things that tried hard to kill me, so it's not that big a deal. I decided long ago that I don't want/need to live in a world where killing people is a way of "life".
Our culture certainly has changed. When I was a kid, I had a few old relatives who lived on ranches in remote places.
When the people would leave for a trip into town, the house was left with certain preparations. There would be a good stock of prepared food left in the 'fridge. Fresh bedding on the beds, and plenty of wood by the banked fireplace. The idea was that if someone wandered in who had been lost, they would need this stuff. The doors were left unlocked.
Cars were always stocked with canned goods and water, along with first aid stuff and extra clothing. This, because it was not uncommon to meet someone along the road who was broken down or crashed, and in need of this stuff. You carried a large caliber revolver in case you came upon a large animal that had been hit by a car.
That ain't the way of it nowadays!
I have a bit more ammo than I can carry. My car can carry all of it, and my other bug out gear, but my car is most likely only a one way ticket, for maybe 400 miles.
I only have one 870 Express with 200 rounds of buck and slugs, and that's about 40 lbs. in the OTG case that holds it all. I have only one P-95, with about 5,000 rounds of ammo, and 5 mags. The 9mm is packed in bags and heavy duty fanny packs with 500 rounds in each. It's all tried and tested handloaded 124 gr. JHP that would blow your Glock to little pieces. If I can't move all of my ammo into the car fast enough, even just a couple of those bags is a good amount.
My "MBR" is a pair of Ruger 10/.22 CRR carbines. One has a good 4x scope, and the other has the fiber optic sites. My "go to" ammo bags for those are more heavy duty fanny packs, with at least 550 rounds in each, plus 4 factory mags. For larger stocks, but still very mobile, I use a handy bag I found at Walmart that holds 4 bulk boxes, for 2,200 rounds in each of 4 bags.
And that's it for guns and ammo.
You may scoff at the .22 LR, but the Rooskies learnt different in Chechnya. I've spent many years observing the shooting habits of others. What I see is that most are just not of the mindset to do much of anything but burn ammo, with little regard for "placing" any given shot. In my own testing with water jugs, wet phone books, slimy mud, and critters, I find that a fast double tap with an accurate .22 is just a bit more devastating than a single shot from a hot 9mm HP, out to about 60 yds. Beyond that, the wound channels are too far apart, so you don't get the conjoined path. The double tap isn't always necessary though. With my scoped CRR, I can hit a clay pigeon reliably out to about 150 yds. One .22 round to any major joint, artery or the face/neck will cause that guy to stop chasing me. He doesn't have to die. He just has to stop giving me a hard time. With a .22, there is no muzzle flash, and if there's much noise around, he won't even know where it came from. It doesn't matter what he has, if he doesn't know where to aim.
I try to keep my car outfitted all the time for a 1 week long emergency. My motive is to get through an accident in the hinterland, because I like to wander around in search of photos out there. I did it for the first 2 years here in Nevada without any guns at all, but I keep meeting up with wacko people who think it's cute to harass people with their guns. Again, I don't have to kill them. The idea of any return fire at all is not what they had in mind, and it motivates them to relocate. Fine by me.
Times have changed, indeed. Never underestimate the capability, or the stupidity of a stranger.
 
Like owlhoot and some others, I'm not a kid anymore. I've also seen the changes to our society.
Kids nowdays think having armed cops and metal detectors at their school is perfectly normal.
I'm glad I was around in an era when such a thing was unthinkable.
I pray the Good Lord won't take me until I've seen one more thing with my own eyes...
That would be the looks on the faces of the white, liberal, Kum-By-Ya singing, "race doesn't matter", "we're all immigrants here" crowd when TSHTF and people are trying to kill them simply because of the color of their pasty white skins.
That day is coming. I just hope I'll still be around to see it.
You young people will have to fish or cut bait.
 
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What you can carry for bug out. I agree with above. If you like to shoot and shoot a lot. Buy as much as you can now, cause prices are only going to go up, either through supply or demand.
Also as to the end-of-the-world zombie take over.....your best bet is to have a plan OR two ahead of time. Stick with family/friends, help others if you can.
As for rioting - I think if things get as bad as some say...........everyone may be involved.
I KNOW for a fact, each of you reading this know someone that has been effected by the economy and job losses. Unfortunately, this is like the Titanic. Lock the little guy under deck while the rich bail.
 
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