Batch loading on progressive reloader

[Varminterror]

A Camdex is a commercial machine........does several thousand an hour.

Also not a single stage process...

My point was that we can be sure this guy’s buddy wasn’t cranking out 900k rounds per month by running a Dillon machine as a single stage press...

 

[EricBu]

Also not a single stage process...

My point was that we can be sure this guy’s buddy wasn’t cranking out 900k rounds per month by running a Dillon machine as a single stage press...

Yeah, he made that clear when he said his buddy used a Camden press.....nobody said anybody was doing 900K a year on a single stage,and nobody said anybody was doing 900K a year on a dillon as a single stage. You're the only one who seemed to think his reference was to single stages doing 900K. I was just correcting your apparent confusion, since you seemed to be super excited to prove mathematically that nobody could do 900K on a single stage. A Camden is a high output commercial machine.

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

2. Lube all cases
3. Resize all cases
4. Dry tumble lube off cases

Use a carbide sizing die and cutout Steps-2 & 4 for all straight-wall pistol cases (except .30-Carbine).

 

[LiveLife]

I am now an advocate of batch loading (on progressive reloader) and have adjusted my pistol caliber process

For "match grade" rounds, I prefer to resize/deprime separately which allows me to inspect the primer pocket/clean as necessary and either hand or bench prime to seat the primers properly around .004" below flush.

Also, using pre-resized brass on progressive press reduces shell plate tilt/deflection to produce more consistent OAL/bullet seating depth and taper crimp application.

On this myth busting thread, even with mixed range brass, pre-resizing brass reduced OAL variance from .002"-.003" down to .001" - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...progressive-press.833604/page-2#post-10779806

BLAZER - 9mm RMR 115 gr FMJ:

• Regular: 1.115" - 1.118" = .003" OAL variance
• Pre-resized: 1.115" - 1.116' = .001' OAL variance

R-P - 9mm RMR 115 gr FMJ:

• Regular; 1.115' - 1.118" = .003" OAL variance
• Pre-resized: 1.115" - 1.116' = .001" OAL variance

WIN - 9mm RMR 115 gr FMJ:

• Regular: 1.114" - 1.117" = .003" OAL variance
• Pre-resized: 1.114" - 1.115" = .001" OAL variance

BLAZER - 9mm RMR 124 gr FP:

• Regular: 1.070" - 1.072" = .002" OAL variance
• Pre-resized: 1.069" - 1.070 = .001 OAL variance

 

[Jim Watson]

My "match grade" ammunition (rifle only) is loaded on an elderly Rockchucker.

 

[KY DAN]

I process brass with a fellow shooter here occasionally which has a range brass and reman business (trading access to his machines for range brass I source). We batch through, but we don’t completely abandon the progressive capabilities of the press. A handful of Mark 7 Autodrives on 1050’s, multiple swage steps in one pass, multiple decappers (in case a pin breaks), and size and expand. Another toolhead for a trimmer. Hitting the actual loading process then on a 3rd machine, it’s progressive process to prime, charge, and seat. Another shooter/range owner/MD/ SOT/Manufacturer, replicated the set up (as am I for myself) for their business - they set up 5 1050’s with autodrives so far, one set for each of their major cartridges to minimize changeovers, and a couple set for brass processing - each process is progressive among multiple steps, not mistakable for a single stage operation. Absent the autodrives, I used the same progressive process when I was working for a smith with a Type 6 making for locals, and set up the same process on 2 progressives when I struck out on my own. Batch through cleaning, prep, and then loading... but major processes, not individual steps.

That’s a very different “batch process” than the single stage game described above by the OP.



If this guy was single staging 900,000 rounds/mo, considering a common 100rnd per hour single stage loading rate... well, that math doesn’t add up, as there aren’t 9000 hours in a month... not 9000 hours in 10 months...

And of course... it’s 30-40yrs later. We’ve redesigned a few new tools for the task since then...

He ran Camdex loaders and dillon rl1000 presses not single stage presses, idk where you got that from as I clearly stated the machines he used.

He produced these quantities and I have no reason to doubt his honesty using the method I transcribed in the original post. He had man power and state of the art technology at the time so the best of both worlds.

 

[KY DAN]

Use a carbide sizing die and cutout Steps-2 & 4 for all straight-wall pistol cases (except .30-Carbine).

I am using carbide, however my shoulders just can't stand the force it takes to run 5000 cases at a time.

I want to also clarify for everyone I do not load 100 round of this or that. I have standard loads for handguns that I produce 5000-10,000 qty at a time. I may load these multi times a year for certain calibers or once every 3 years for others.

 

[KY DAN]

I also admit this is not a solution to my press not feeding federal primers. I will take the time to figure out a solution, because even if I load ammo in batches or traditional progressive loading I still will be without priming.

 

[The Happy Kaboomer]

I have a friend who I consider my mentor in many ways of life and today I sent him a text message after I spent 2 hours reloading 38 special on my dillon rl1000 and I had less than 30 rounds to show for my TROUBLES.

I switched to a new 5k case of federal small pistol primers and my primming went to crap, previously I had used cci/remington and the primming system flowed like water. I cleaned everything up and lubed with graphite and got back to loading only to face the same issues again and again before I finally sent my text.

My friend called and the first words out of his mouth were "what have I tried to tell you this whole time Daniel"? I had to sheepishly say "take the process one step at a time and do not do everything at once so I have complete control over each step". My friend ran a commercial ammo business for decades and did quite well and used the batch loading method.


I am now an advocate of batch loading and have adjusted my pistol caliber process as follows.

1. Dry Tumble clean
2. Lube all cases
3. Resize all cases
4. Dry tumble lube off cases
5. Prime cases
6. Load ammo without fear of issues

May not be the fastest but I can now guarantee perfect ammo.

And you have totally defeated the whole reason for owning a progressive press(speed w/safety). You might as well go back to a single stage loader. Apparently your Dillon doesn't like Federal primers.............DON"T give up on it for that reason.

 

[jmorris]

We batch through, but we don’t completely abandon the progressive capabilities of the press. A handful of Mark 7 Autodrives on 1050’s, multiple swage steps in one pass, multiple decappers (in case a pin breaks), and size and expand. Another toolhead for a trimmer. Hitting the actual loading process then on a 3rd machine, it’s progressive process

Yep, lots of ways to skin the cat. I prefer to size/deprime, trim, and expand on the first pass then load on a 2nd. If using 3 machines or 12 for that matter, works for someone, I’m fine with that too.

If they set up a proximity sensor to detect the spent primer they could loose the redundant decapping pins and also have the machine stop on a case if the primer had already fallen out because it was too loose (you don’t want to reload that case anyway).

 

[jmorris]

A Camdex is a commercial machine........does several thousand an hour.

That Dillon I posted in #13 sizing/depriming and swaging, is running around 4320/hr.

The case master I linked to in #23 is just a push through sizer folks use to process brass before they dump them into the Camdex collator. That’s why it runs faster (5,800/hr) than the Camdex machines can use them up.

I suppose the “loss” is when one performs the processes sequentially vs concurrently.

 

[243winxb]

If your press worked well with one kind of primer, and now doesn't work with another... the primer is the likely culprit, not the press.

Very true.
A (my) study of primers under magnification & taking measurement can be interesting. Not only can diameter be an issue, the primer cups mouth can be also.
The mouth or leading edge of some primers have a very slight taper. This helps guide the primer into the case pocket.
This is why i only use one brand in my very old Dillon RL-450. A Dillon that has problems, needs checked with the Dillon Alignment Tool.

 

[Charlie98]

I have had issues, oddly enough, with SPP's on my older Hornady ProJector (not the LNL.) The primer feed actually works well enough until you get down to the bottom 10 primers in the tube, then the spring-loaded primer arm starts to flip out... quite literally. I put it down to the primer anvil catching on the bottom of the tube, and/or the lesser weight of the primers stacked in the tube not allowing smooth functioning of the primer arm. Because my press is not fully automatic, I can easily address the problem... I'm aware of it, and I can feel it in the press when The Time comes... but in reality, if I adjusted the primer arm a little, I could probably fix it. In all the years of using this press, SPP's have given me the most problems.

 

[LiveLife]

I spent 2 hours reloading 38 special on my dillon rl1000 and I had less than 30 rounds to show for my TROUBLES ... I am now an advocate of batch loading

May not be the fastest but I can now guarantee perfect ammo.

Getting back to OP, I think the focus of the thread was that we may run into reloading issues and there are options we can utilize to resolve those reloading issues even though they may be non-conventional.

While many "reloaders" may not consider primer brand, bullet diameter, case wall thickness by headstamp, deeper bullet seating depth, chamfering inside of semi-auto cases, etc. to improve the operation of progressive reloading to make finished rounds more consistent to optimize accuracy, some "handloaders" have utilized these non-conventional reloading practices to improve progressive reloading:

• Separately resizing brass - Reduces OAL variance from shell plate tilt/deflection variance from resizing brass.

• Separately resizing brass - Allows inspection and cleaning of primer pockets, along with removal/swaging of primer pocket crimp.

• Separately resizing brass - For overly expanded brass fired in generous chambers with less case base support where resizing die may not reach, checking resized brass to ensure they pass the case gauge/tightest barrel chamber.

• Separately priming brass - Allows more precise primer seating depth to properly set the anvil tip against the priming compound (around .004" below flush).

• Sorting brass: Separating known headstamp brass with tighter primer pockets - Especially when using slightly larger sized Metric primers, sorting out known headstamp brass with tighter primer pockets (S&B/RWS), especially once-fired brass, prevent partially seated primers. Sorted out brass are used with smaller diameter/domestic primers.

• Sorting brass: Using shorter resized brass to determine the Max OAL - Shorter resized brass allows more bullet nose to protrude above case mouth than longer resized brass at the same OAL when chambered rounds headspace off case mouth.

• Sorting brass: Using shorter resized brass to set the taper crimp die - Longer resized brass allows more taper crimp to be applied, especially when using tighter chamber match barrels.

• Using slightly larger sized bullets to improve neck tension and reduce/eliminate bullet setback - Using .3555"/.356" diameter bullets if .354"/.355" diameter bullets produce significant bullet setback.

• Using slightly thicker case wall brass to improve neck tension/bullet setback - Depending on headstamp, case wall thickness round bottom of bullet base where neck tension is greater, case wall thickness can vary by .001"-.003"+.

• Using slightly thinner case wall brass to address chambering issues - When using larger sized lead/coated lead bullets, bulging case neck around bottom of bullet base rubbing with chamber could be addressed by using thinner case wall brass.

• Individually checking finished rounds in case gage/block/barrel to ensure full chambering, especially for barrels with tighter chamber/shorter leade.

While these additional "batching processes" add time to reloading operation, as OP posted, can prevent time consuming frustration to make progressive reloading smoother and can produce more consistent finished rounds.

(my) study of primers under magnification & taking measurement can be interesting. Not only can diameter be an issue, the primer cups mouth can be also. The mouth or leading edge of some primers have a very slight taper. This helps guide the primer into the case pocket. This is why i only use one brand in my very old Dillon RL-450.

When people complain about difficult primer seating issues with larger Metric sized primers, use of domestic brand primers like CCI/Winchester improved seating issues. Even for humble Pro 1000 primer attachment, I found Magtech SP primers to be easiest seating with least amount of primer seating issues.