BATF posts reward for missing rifles.
- Thread starter Trent
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oneounceload
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Maybe they should look at themselves; after F&F, who knows?
Speedo66
Member
"We’re hoping that we will be able to recover these rifles before they do end up in the wrong hands...”
Isn't that exactly where they are now?
Based on the violence stats for a city it's size, Chicago seems like it's totally out of control. Why is their PD so ineffectual?
Who remembers when some FBI agents left their automatic weapons in their vehicle overnight at a motel and lost them?
Isn't that exactly where they are now?
Based on the violence stats for a city it's size, Chicago seems like it's totally out of control. Why is their PD so ineffectual?
Who remembers when some FBI agents left their automatic weapons in their vehicle overnight at a motel and lost them?
BaltimoreBoy
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Doesn't it seem strange to offer a reward ($10,000) that is more than the alleged list price of the stolen items? (13x709=$9,217)
PistolPete45
Member
The tightest Gun control in the mid west .. Right . forms for everything approval to sharpen a pointy stick . Inside job all the way .
13 ARs out of 50 stolen from a container implies the thieves were probably surprised by what they found "behind door number 3". It it had been a carefully planned firearms theft all the rifles would have gone missing.
NSSF and BATFE are offering a reward not just to recover the rifles, but to bust the thieves audacious enough to take this many guns.
NSSF and BATFE are offering a reward not just to recover the rifles, but to bust the thieves audacious enough to take this many guns.
Rail thefts are nothing particularly new or imaginative. My grandfather worked on the railroad for most of his life as a conductor and engineer; he used to (illegally) carry a sidearm with him. Remote locations + stopped train + draw of loot + slow law enforcement reaction ("You said you are at the grain elevator WHERE???") = not good.
I heard a local rumor, unconfirmed, that a car was broken in to in Peoria once and the thieves made out with LAWS rockets because of all the feds that swarmed in afterwards. But, probably just a local myth.
You have to know that *some* of this stuff never makes the news - if those were US government arms instead of a commercial shipment, might never hear of it.
Twiki357
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After almost a month, the reward MAY get a tip to the thieves, but I bet the guns are long gone.
Jorg Nysgerrig
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Why would the BATFE guard a commercial shipment of rifles destined for a retailer?
Why would the BATFE guard a commercial shipment of rifles destined for a retailer?
I'm sure the BATFE probably had ZERO idea the rifles were there. It's very common practice for semi-trucks to be offloaded to rail for cross country journeys. Heck, I bet S&W didn't even know they were going out via rail. They probably just contracted a trucking company, who agreed to ship for $X to whatever destination. Trucking company then contracted the rail company to ship for a leg of that journey.
A good chunk of the cars my grandfather's train hauled were semi-truck boxes stacked two high. They picked up or dropped off cars at grain elevators on the way from one yard to another.
This must be exactly why Rahm is pushing for video taping sales and a one day waiting period.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-plan-to-require-all-gun-sales-be-videotaped/
If only Chicago had these common sense laws, the thieves would have broken in one day and would have had to come back the next to pick up their rifles, and it would all have been recorded on video.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-plan-to-require-all-gun-sales-be-videotaped/
If only Chicago had these common sense laws, the thieves would have broken in one day and would have had to come back the next to pick up their rifles, and it would all have been recorded on video.
Lucky 13 was probably all two guys could carry, what with bolt cutters and stuff. As said, if they had known it was 50, they would have planned to take them all.
As for stealing gov't guns, it's why police cruisers are now monitored in some way. Just like not leaving your HMMV abandoned on the streets of Baghdad when searching a building, the cops now have to secure the vehicles contents in careful ways because Uncle Sam has been handing out full auto M16's to departments nationwide. The cruiser was already a target if left alone, just from vandalism, leave it where a perp can see guns inside, they are after them in a heartbeat. Now, every one potentially has a full auto M16 in the trunk. No way the cops can leave them unattended for long periods of time.
Cruisers are getting broken into at an increasing rate. So a couple of freight thieves hitting a shipment of AR15's is just chance. No way you could know in advance which CONEX of 150 on a train would have that box and where it was loaded in the car. It could have been behind 25 refrigerators.
S&W and the shipping companies do play a game were the shipper isn't listed right out in the documents. Those of us who returned our LCP's by recall didn't see "Sturm, Ruger, and Company, Gunmakers to America" on the label. IIRC it was "SRC" and that's all it said. Got it back to my doorstep the same way.
Which should explain why the load wasn't behind all those fridges - the anonymity of shipping that way is the protection, key an indicator on the label to create more work for the loading crew and you just told them what's in the crate. It's the same way jewelry is shipped - nobody labels it "South African Blood Diamond Mining Company" to "DeBeers, Amsterdam."
Not even the military sends guards on train loads of vehicles and equipment shipped cross country. What you do is not leave anything obviously labeled or unsecure, the train shipper attempts to park it in places far removed from public access to prevent theft and vandalism. It seems to work out overall. Commercial? There's no way to house a guard unless you add a car built specifically for it. Sitting three days in North Dakota in subfreezing temps miles from town in a blizzard isn't going to recruit many job seekers. Not happening, and exponentially escalates the costs.
The unintended consequence is that gun prices would easily triple . . . sounds like a great scheme if it was proposed by the anti gunners. And it would do very little in theft prevention, most stolen guns come from homes, or BATF operations.
Note there's NO reward for all the guns they let walk during Fast and Furious, they even know the exact serial numbers. They were monitoring the operatives and had to know which one surfaced where. Like the ones used to kill other Federal agents.
No doubt they have the SN's on the missing S&W's, you guys there need to keep that in mind.
As for stealing gov't guns, it's why police cruisers are now monitored in some way. Just like not leaving your HMMV abandoned on the streets of Baghdad when searching a building, the cops now have to secure the vehicles contents in careful ways because Uncle Sam has been handing out full auto M16's to departments nationwide. The cruiser was already a target if left alone, just from vandalism, leave it where a perp can see guns inside, they are after them in a heartbeat. Now, every one potentially has a full auto M16 in the trunk. No way the cops can leave them unattended for long periods of time.
Cruisers are getting broken into at an increasing rate. So a couple of freight thieves hitting a shipment of AR15's is just chance. No way you could know in advance which CONEX of 150 on a train would have that box and where it was loaded in the car. It could have been behind 25 refrigerators.
S&W and the shipping companies do play a game were the shipper isn't listed right out in the documents. Those of us who returned our LCP's by recall didn't see "Sturm, Ruger, and Company, Gunmakers to America" on the label. IIRC it was "SRC" and that's all it said. Got it back to my doorstep the same way.
Which should explain why the load wasn't behind all those fridges - the anonymity of shipping that way is the protection, key an indicator on the label to create more work for the loading crew and you just told them what's in the crate. It's the same way jewelry is shipped - nobody labels it "South African Blood Diamond Mining Company" to "DeBeers, Amsterdam."
Not even the military sends guards on train loads of vehicles and equipment shipped cross country. What you do is not leave anything obviously labeled or unsecure, the train shipper attempts to park it in places far removed from public access to prevent theft and vandalism. It seems to work out overall. Commercial? There's no way to house a guard unless you add a car built specifically for it. Sitting three days in North Dakota in subfreezing temps miles from town in a blizzard isn't going to recruit many job seekers. Not happening, and exponentially escalates the costs.
The unintended consequence is that gun prices would easily triple . . . sounds like a great scheme if it was proposed by the anti gunners. And it would do very little in theft prevention, most stolen guns come from homes, or BATF operations.
Note there's NO reward for all the guns they let walk during Fast and Furious, they even know the exact serial numbers. They were monitoring the operatives and had to know which one surfaced where. Like the ones used to kill other Federal agents.
No doubt they have the SN's on the missing S&W's, you guys there need to keep that in mind.
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Not touching on the other points your raised as they were 100% spot on, regarding operational security of shipping.
The serial # thing, however, is a moot point in the days of 3D printers and 80% receivers. *Most* of the expensive parts are not serialized on AR's (entire upper, LPK, stock, etc). I'd expect at some point anti-gunners to throw that back in our faces harder - this isn't like a Mini14 that they can acid-etch / xray destroyed serial #'s back out of... the thieves could slag the receiver with a torch and build a new rifle from the parts for very little time or cost.
Then again; why run the risk of a major felony to steal what you could have delivered to your front door without an FFL being involved?
Yes, the thieves grabbed some rifles, but at the same time, for ZERO risk they could have had all the parts except lower shipped to them, built a receiver, and sold them for the same huge black market markup. Sure, not 100% profit like stealing all of the parts; but they could still "make out like bandits."
I have a feeling due to all of the proposed rulemaking and laws, that we are not far off (as a society) from a serious organized crime syndicate developing on weapons. The harder the political push to register / ban the various guns, the more lucrative they become for black market operators.
Whenever the Government creates an opportunity for people to make money like that, "smart bad guys" are never far behind to fill the void that the laws create. Just look at how effective prohibition was on limiting supplies of alcohol. All it changed was where the money was going....
While playing devil's advocate (talking about the "ghost gun" push here), it is important to keep in to context what will happen if full registration or bans were implemented. Where there is money to be made, bad guys will be drawn ....
desidog
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Interesting point. Just look at the criminal cottage industry in England converting replicas to working f/a's.
However, us enthusiasts know all the parts of an AR and how they go together, but it never ceases to amaze me how many gun owners out there have never fully disassembled their gun, or even know how to strip it. I know a "gunsmith" who is really a glorified weapons cleaner...people drop off their gun once a year for a "professional cleaning." So, i think we can assume that this was a crime of opportunity and the thieves saw AR's (one of the most well known designs out there) and grabbed them.
The question is, are the thieves smart enough to part them out and disappear the lowers, or are they going to sell them whole to the crack dealer down the street...if that happens, the chances of it catching up with them are a bit higher.
Well with this being Chicago, and the number of rifles being hauled off (presumably on foot for a ways), you can assume that there were several people involved. Probably 2 or 3, plus a lookout.
Which means it was probably one of Chicago's wonderful street gangs. Which means the weapons probably won't get sold.
We can only hope the criminals are stupid and flap their jaws. The vast majority of crimes like this are solved by loose lips (bravado, bragging).
AR-15's are compact enough for gangs to use them in drive by's and accurate enough for gangs to use them for targeted killings in turf war. Chicago gangs have (historically) used handguns at close range for this sort of thing. Illinois has a *remarkably* low percentage of murder by rifle (any type). If that changes it'll add fuel to the Rahm / Bloomberg anti-gun war wagon.
A clip from stats I'd calculated a while back during the post Sh/AWB days in 2013;
(Point being, let's hope these gangs never take a basic rifle marksmanship class, because it'd be a "game changer")
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