BATFE rejects SIG handguns from selection

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Seems to me it's a training issue.



MSRP between all three are within a few dollars. Cost to built a P250 is less because of the modular nature.
Modular nature aka chintzy design.

Inaccurate is an understatement. Those P250's can't hit the air you're shooting into.

I owned a P250. The trigger was terrible, and the whole gun was just rickety. And for the mammoth size of the .45ACP model, it only held ten rounds.

I sold it and bought an FNP45.
 
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"I have always felt that G-Men or any LEO ought to supply their own Arms anyway.


I would never trust a Carpenter or Plumber who had to use Tools his boss had to buy for him, and, which his boss still owns.

That is what serfs and peons traditionally settled for.


I wish we could have grown ups in these jobs.

Not like they do not get paid more than plenty anyway, to afford their own Arm(s).

If any given unit or organization wishes to decide a particular Caliber or choice of Calibers, so be it, their personel would then elect Side Arms obliging that Caliber or Calibers.


Oye... "




I couldn't agree more as someone who has been a LEO and has a family of LEO's there is no way I feel comfortable with any situation where a firearm has been issued too me until I have fired at least 1000 rounds through it and have done a full detail strip clean and lube and have it checked by a smith. It would be 10 times easier to just bring my own weapon for service duty but there are huge legal issues in certain circumstances. So in short that subject is a double edged blade!!!
 
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And decompression is apparently not the issue some make it out to be. Even if an agent managed to shoot out an entire window, the plane would, by the reports I've read, just have to descend to 10,000 feet. The O2 masks might deploy, but it would hardly be catastrophic on the level portrayed by Hollywood.


This is also as much of a myth as the one from Hollywood.

When there is a large gap in a portion of the airframe that is not meant to withstand the added stress of airflow at that point going several hundred miles per hour it can in fact rip off a substantial portion of aircraft. Being the venting point for the compressed air of the cabin will help push material outwards (like the skin of the aircraft), where the airflow will be even better able to snag and tear it from the plane.


Any good size hole in the airframe will cause massive airflow into the cabin, and in certain areas of the aircraft direct the airflow straight into the cabin. Some areas would be much worse with a hole than others. Several hundred mile per hour wind can destroy quite a bit. Anything from ripping an even larger hole, to sucking many thing outside the aircraft, to creating further damage in the aircraft.

The pilot acting quickly can minimize additional damage.

Here is a decompression caused by the cargo door of the aircraft opening at altitude (and getting torn off as a result):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_811

In the business-class section, a grinding noise was heard, followed by a loud thud which rattled the whole aircraft — 1½ seconds later the forward cargo-door blew out abruptly. The pressure differential caved in the floor above the door, causing two rows of seats (8G-12G and 8H-12H) and an individual in 9F to be ejected from the cabin, resulting in nine fatalities and leaving a gaping hole in the aircraft.

And that is a door coming off, a substantially stronger and reinforced section of the aircraft. A random hole in an area without a door frame would be even more likely to rip a good chunk of aircraft away with it.
Hopefully stopping before it takes too much of the aircraft with it or causes a loss in structural stability.

The problem? The cargo door latch gave out. On a good aircraft a mere door opening at altitude tore a large chunk of the aircraft off and sucked people and seats out.


Another sudden decompression with a better result:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243

The skin of the aircraft peeled off a significant portion of the roof, and one person was sucked out of the aircraft. Presumably most passengers still had seat belts on.


Now small bullet holes typically shouldn't allow enough airflow to cause such problems, but a sudden hole of baseball size or greater certainly could, as could a lucky bullet that tore off a chunk larger than itself.
 
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There are other good Sigs. My P226 is quite new and has been fantastic. I just got a P239 which I also like.

I think the problem with the P250 is that it's designed to use multiple calibers. From an engineernig standpoint that would have to involve compromises - going from high pressure high velocity rounds like .357 Sig to low pressure rounds like .45 ACP shouldn't really be attempted in the same gun. It's got to throw the timing off considerably, not to mention making your pistol bigger than it needs to be. It's kind of like expecting the BATFE (or anybody) to buy a Glock 21 and then use conversion barrels to bring it to your caliber of choice - only an idiot would go for that on a large scale.
 
I have 5 SIGs and I rejected the P250 sight unseen, the modular idea just did not appeal to my better judgment. Wonder why Springer stayed away?
 
Just wondered if Springfield felt that the XD would not be competitive or the testing would be biased? I do not own any SA except the 1911s, may get an M1 rifle someday, but the XDs and XDm are not on my want list. May be a reason that there are few LEA that use the XD... if any.
 
SA will not submit the XD for LE trials.

Two questions.

1. Why not?

and


2. Can they?

Since Springfield is only the importer and HS Produkt of Croatia is the maker, what kind of deal do the two have? I assume that SA can market the gun how they see fit but could they commit the maker to a large leo order?
And if they can then why not try.

Just wondering :confused:
 
Inaccurate is an understatement. Those P250's can't hit the air you're shooting into.

Quite frankly mine are just the opposite. Sig could have packed more 45ACP rounds into the frame. Making it even larger or longer. The ammo is a finite size requiring a fixed amount of space.

The modular design is no weaker than that of my Glocks. Where they failed was in thinking many would go for the one frame, many conversion kits. In that area they did fail in my opinion.
 
The submission of the p250 for this contract was a P.R. stunt gone bad. They should have submitted the 2022 instead. I've heard they've started making more 2022s because of this debacle.

Go S&W! Show those Austrians they can't take over the world! :)
 
The P250 is "cohen" Sig. It is all concept flash with no meat on the bone. It inbodies the move the metal mentality cohen has brought to Sig.

Cohen? Member of he Cohanim, or is this a CEO, etc.? Certainly not a reference to Jews, surely? No reproach if not so, just clarifying.
 
Bought a 250... dumped it for a loss after one range trip, went with the P229 instead and I LOVE it
 
dont get me wrong here all the guns mentioned are pretty good but the first mistake was getting rid of the 226 and 229
 
oh and reaper the xd series would do better than the m&p series easily and prolly the glock and sig also im talking reliability and accuracy with consistency the reason why le wont go with them is incase the operator has a injury and has to use one hand to work the slide which with the rear grip safety would make it difficult
 
oh and reaper the xd series would do better than the m&p series easily and prolly the glock and sig also im talking reliability and accuracy with consistency the reason why le wont go with them is incase the operator has a injury and has to use one hand to work the slide which with the rear grip safety would make it difficult

Just what do you have against periods and capital letters?

I think they *prolly* are not made quite as rugged as the Glock and M&P and would fail the required durability test.
 
Ron J. Cohen is President and Chief Executive Officer of SIG SAUER®.

Does this guy have any firearms experience/background? You'd think the lessons of other makers that went cheap would be cautionary, but CEOs get their huge bonuses based on corporate profit and not product quality. Kind of like corporate raiders or seagull managers (fly in screechng like a banshee, grab all the goodies in sight, crap all over everything and then fly off). I can tell you I'll not consider the new SIGs with that in mind... :scrutiny:
 
I've had Sigs, had a P226, a P229 and a P239. The P226 was my all-around favorite. I also had a P250 recently and having had one, I totally understand the 45 user-caused failures of the P250. And, unless you've owned and shot one, it's hard to understand. The P250 isn't the usual DA/SA that Sig uses, it's DAO. The trigger pull is light and smooth but looooong, ridiculously long, as is the reset too. I've really enjoyed shooting just about every SIG I've owned but the P250 was a disaster that I couldn't wait to get rid of. When shooting slowly, doing some bullseye shooting, it wasn't too bad. But, when doing double-taps on silhouette's, there were plenty of times I pulled the trigger and nothing happened because I hadn't fully let out the trigger and allowed it to reset. Trigger pull and reset is too long. It deserves to be dropped from the testing, if issued, could cost lives. SIG has a decent pistol in the P250 if they could just iron out that damn trigger problem.
The SIG 2022 would have been a better gun to submit for testing.
 
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