Battle rifle- PTR 91 vs. SA58 FAL vs. M14

[sprice]

What would be the most accurate, most reliable, and best feeling battle rifle that would be the best rifle if you only had one? It would have to be capable of taking big game and any other shtfk situation out there. It's between the m14 with a 22'' barrel (for our uses it will be a chinese bolt conversion rifle that's been tricked out or a springfield m1a in the specified price range), the PTR 91 F (http://ptr91.com/), and the FAL (as seen here http://www.dsarms.com/SA58-FAL-Medium-Contour-Rifle-308-Cal---SA58MCCM/productinfo/SA58MCCM/ )

Make sure to give details and facts- followed by clearly stated oppinions and pictures if you have them, feel free to post past experience and also other sites that may have information on these rifles. Another interesting subject may be to discuss different m14, ptr 91, and fal stocks and sights (like paratrooper stocks for instance) and also aftermarket parts and magazines. No bashing here please, but defend your favorite rifle! For our purposes these rifles can be customized up to around $2,300 more or less so that may put one above the other. Ease of scope mounting should also be considered.


This is the exact same thread on TFL in case you should want to see it. http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3737420#post3737420

 

[geojap]

I vote Star Trek phaser.

Seriously, you are going to get a gazillion different responses about everyone's favorite rifle. I think an FAL meets your needs best, but I own an M1A. I've owned an SA58 and it's a great rifle.

 

[Bwana John]

This is the exact same thread...

Yep the same old thread, over and over and over.......

 

[inherentical]

Yep the same old thread, over and over and over.......

C'mon. We haven't had a "G3 vs. FAL vs. M14" thread for at least two weeks.

 

[sprice]

ya seriously so let's just do it again to suffice my odd need for it c'mon guys!

 

[cvb]

all your choices are so 20th century MBR heavy-go with the cheap mags. seriously, all good choices-see what you like best-

 

[FSJeeper]

1. M14: historic and classy, the most accurate of the three, excellent erg's, and imho, more fun to shoot.
2. FAL: Very close to number one position but wins number one if cheap parts/mags and ease of maintenance is your bag.
3. HK: Close to the above, but just does not get there.

If you must have the very best, the M14. Most practical on a budget, the FAL
with the HK right behind it.

Before you invest, try all three and see what "feels" right to you and your wallet.

 

[sprice]

I'm kinda wondering how i'm supposed to try out a gun. Everyone talks about it but I don't know how to.

 

[Ian]

Find friends who already own them. If you don;t have friends with a wide variety of military rifles, then your life is too bland.

 

[amprecon]

I owned a PTR-91 for a short period of time and there is no doubt it was a well made rifle. However, the ergo's on that rifle were not well thought out, the charging handle was hard to operate and nearly impossible to grab and operate with cold weather gloves or mits on and the trigger was the definition of atrocious. I sold it for what I really wanted, an M1A and I am happily satisfied with it.

 

[Robert]

For overall ergonomics the FAL is tough to beat. I put the SAW pistol grip and extended safety switch on mine and I love it. The charging handle is on the left side of the rifle, where God intended it to be. The trigger is your normal military trigger, though you can have someone like Bill Springfield fix that for you. The iron sights are not the greatest and some will tell you that the FAL will not hit the side of a barn however, I just recently (3 weeks ago) shot my first tactical rifle match with it placing 18th out of 24. I was able to hit a 400 yard steel plate 5 out of 5 time with iron sights. I have never fired or even handled an M1A or a PTR91 so anything I have to say on them would be hearsay.

 

[Rshooter]

I must say the M1A. I like the accuracy of the rifle and I believe it is tough as all get out. It's pedigree comes from the M1 Garand which I also own and few people will deny that was a great rifle. You can mount a scope on mine with one screw and the supplied mount but I prefer iron sights, much quicker. You can load with magazines or stripper clips from the top as long as you are not using a scope there. For me a stock M1A is all I need.

 

[Frankl03]

I have owned all three. I currently own a PTR 91 and an M1A Loaded. I think of the 3 the M1A is the most accurate with Iron sights. I like the diopter sights on the PTR. I also plan to scope both the M1A and the PTR 91. The M1A is a pita to scope. The PTR 91 shoots alot better than I thought it would. I have a bolt rifle that has more recoil so I don't think the recoil is bad.

Over all I think I like M1A the best but they are all good rifles. I have also owned an AR10 and I would like to own one again. I really believe the AR10 has the most potential for accuracy of the above rifles and its the easiest to scope.

 

[JShirley]

What would be the most accurate, most reliable, and best feeling battle rifle that would be the best rifle if you only had one?

And, where do I bolt the sink?

In all seriousness, perhaps you should re-evaluate your true needs. If hunting is a primary consideration, a heavy autoloader might not be what you're looking for: instead, something like a good Mauser sporter or a sporterized 1903 might be the thing. I've had two FALs, an M1A, and used an HK-91 hunting. Once.

If you want good ergonomics: FAL

If you want best sights: M1A

If you want easy scope mounting: FAL or CETME/HK-91

Best handling: M1A and FAL. (Though, the safety location on the M1A is absolutely INSANE, and begs for a negligent discharge. It's easy to put a British selector on FAL rifles, which will enable keeping a good grip, and let you reach the safety without changing your grip.)

Least expensive mags: CETME, then FAL

Reliable: well built, all.

If you want a scoped rifle, the FAL is the clear choice, though an M1A is probably more *inherently* accurate, than all but very highly worked FAL-type rifles (I do have an extremely accurate FAL, but it's the most expensive weapon I own). It's just harder to scope an M1A, and keep it accurate.

John

 

[9mmepiphany]

Find friends who already own them. If you don;t have friends with a wide variety of military rifles, then your life is too bland.

i used to be the guy who would let friends shoot my rifles, because i was always looking for the "it" rifle.

Accuracy - i always thought they were all about even in accuracy, but i had enough friends tell me it was easier to hit with the M1a that i believe them...it just wasn't for me.

my HK-91 was very accurate, but i understand it was the exception...but it took alot of work due to the rough trigger

the FAL was just easy to shoot, as the trigger was clean and the stock fit me better than the other two

Ergonomics - FAL, it was just designed "right" from the start. the only changes i prefer different from the SA-58 is the L1A1 folding cocking handle, fore end and selector

Sights - i prefer the HK diopter sights over the M1a's peep...i think i just prefer shooting with my head erect

Scope mounting - my HK-91 came with the factory claw mount and it was awesome. on or off was just a lever click and it always returned to zero. again it worked really well with my head position. most of my "cheek weld" friends prefer the FAL's lower mount.

i think the FAL is the way to go, the fact that it is cheaper to keep running is just a plus. there are a lot more FALs out there than M1as.

 

[H2O MAN]

JShirley It's just harder to scope an M1A, and keep it accurate.

My personal hands on experience does not reflect your claims.
My M14s are easy to scope and their accuracy has not degraded.

the safety location on the M1A is absolutely INSANE, and begs for a negligent discharge

Please explain how one can initiate a ND when the M14 safety is engaged.

 

[Dambugg]

I like them all. I own an Fn-Fal but would be comfy with any of the guns mentioned in this thread. my .02, handle them, try to arrange to shoot some and buy the one that feels like home.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Please explain how one can initiate a ND when the M14 safety is engaged

by placing your finger inside the trigger guard to push off the safety

is there some other way to disengage the safety quickly?

 

[JShirley]

H2O, I have several friends who I know to be high-level to expert shooters. At least two are SMEs, one of whom was an armorer who worked on M14s for years. I also trusted the 18B of the 7th Group team, who expressed the exact same opinion. I know and trust their experience. Perhaps you can explain how you have personal experience accurizing M1As.

My personal hands on experience does not reflect your claims.

Please explain your personal, hands-on, experience. And why I should value it more than expert shooters and armorers who have worked on the system for years.

H2O, you have lots of pictures.

Kindly post a close-up of the trigger guard of an M14 or M1A.

Then, if you can't see the potential for a ND when the shooter has to place his finger inside the trigger guard to disengage, there's really nothing I can say to you. Further, that I even have to explain this to you, makes me embarrassed.

J

 

[General Geoff]

Please explain how one can initiate a ND when the M14 safety is engaged.

I think he meant that since the safety is built into the trigger guard, it's too easy to negligently pull the trigger while engaging or disengaging the safety.



ETA: I don't bother to use the safety on my M1A at all, but then again I don't use the manual safeties on any of my firearms (my brain and the four rules are my safeties).

 

[JShirley]

Let me help:

a negligent discharge is caused by shooter error.

An accidental discharge is caused by an equipment malfunction.

Since a ND is caused by shooter error...a design that requires...oh, never mind.

 

[H2O MAN]

General Geoff
(my brain and the four rules are my safeties).

excellent response.

It is impossible to pull the trigger while disengaging the safety.
Training dictates that you keep your finger outside of the trigger guard when engaging the safety.




.

 

[General Geoff]

Actually I lied, I do use the manual safety on a 1911 when I carry it (condition 1). But with long guns, I generally keep the chamber empty until I'm ready to fire (though I observe the four rules at all times regardless of chamber status). I've never served in the military, nor have I carried a rifle in a combat situation. If I did, I'd probably be more concerned with safety location and function

 

[rockstar.esq]

I was once BBQ'd for pointing out how in Fulton Armories book on the M1A the author (Mr. Fulton) made it a point to write how the M1A is fully capable of an out of battery discharge if the ammo isn't military. I offered citations of the text I won't repeat here. Even though there was a THR member who'd HAD such a disaster happen and posted about it -the masses deny it's an issue. I used to love the M1A and I still think the sights are a benchmark of excellence - but I'm too attached to my wifes husband to fool around with out of battery discharges.

I'd love to own a FAL but I can't afford one. In my opinion it's a necessity that a rifle locks open on the last shot. It's a necessity that you operate the charging handle without breaking your shooting grip -or spastically reaching over with the off hand. It's also a necessity that it be able to shoot all SAMMI spec conforming ammo safely.

Although not a necessity, I tend to have more affection for rifles that aren't so popular it's impossible to question their shortcomings. I'd rather be comfortable knowing my rifle's not perfect and why.

 

[H2O MAN]

JShirley It's just harder to scope an M1A, and keep it accurate.

My personal hands on experience does not reflect your claims.
My M14s are easy to scope and their accuracy has not degraded.

Personal hands on experience: The scope is easy to R&R and it holds zero.