BBC article on Brazil

[DeseoUnTaco]

They don't even make an effort to have journalistic objectivity:

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4371120.stm

and yet they managed to make some good statements:

But the poll lead was squandered by a "Yes" campaign that was heavy in celebrity razzamatazz, and light in penetrating argument.

That's right! And:

Next, and crucially, the "No" campaign made the point that criminals do not buy guns legally in shops, where customers are subject to strict background checks.
Instead, it pointed to the extensive black market in smuggled weapons, arguing that clandestine firearms would remain untouched by a ban on legal sales.

The logic is so clear, how can an intelligent writer for the BBC not get this?

 

[Fletchette]

I listened to the BBC last night. Just as strange. They made several statements like the ones you quoted that I am sure that many of would completely agree with, but said it in a sarcastic tone as if to say that you would have to be crazy to believe this.

I can respect someone else's opinion and respectfully disagree. I have met bonafide Communists that truly believe in Communism because they have different fundamental core beliefs. Fair enough, we just disagree.

However, I cannot respect an adversary that simply believes something based on no logic whatsoever, and I cannot relate to the Europeans that cannot comprehend that reasonable people may actually believe in gun ownership.

I listened to the BBC report in astonishment of the complete bias and no presentation of any logic to back up their position at all. Rebecca Peters actually said, "many of the voters believed that owning a gun is a good way to protect yourself, which of course isn't true". WHY NOT?!? She offerred no explaination of her belief that being unarmed is somehow better.

Of course, the BBC simply accepted this as gospel.

 

[otomik]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4368598.stm

"If I had the money, I would have a weapon to try to protect myself and my family," she told the BBC. "The police are never going to arrive in time and if they do, they may kill you."

so true, some brutal cops they have there.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4371120.stm

The president himself seemed strangely lacklustre during the campaign. Previously a strong supporter of disarmament policies, he appeared unwilling to engage in favour a ban on gun sales.

At one point he even refused to confirm to reporters which way he would vote. The impression was of a seasoned politician unwilling to be labelled a loser.

For the foreseeable future, it is unlikely that any government will feel able to revisit the guns issue - such was the deafening volume of the "No" vote.

socialist gun banners trying to ride the fence, sounds familiar I wonder if Lula is "a hunter" or was in vietnam?

 

[DeseoUnTaco]

We managed to get our message across that Brazilians have individual rights which the state cannot take away.

That is wonderful. That's an American ideal of freedom that has made its way all the way to Brazil. That language comes from America. They are now saying that, even though they don't have a 2nd amend like we do, they still have the same right. They are correct! It's an inalienable human right, something we are born with.

This referendum is going to have wide-ranging effects. It really changes the debate. I hope that our winning side there will take this momentum forward and do a CCW reform effort. They are obviously borrowing from America's language on this subject so please also borrow our CCW laws!

 

[mbs357]

So the new bill went belly up eh?
If things keep going in this direction Brazil could end up a better place for gun enthusiasts than the US...not very likely, but who knows eh?

 

[alan]

No matter how much BBC's orientation, leanings and coverage might annoy perhaps offend some, those who would silence them might consider the following.

1. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
2. More important than that is the following. Were you to silence BBC, remember the liklehood of someone coming along and silencing you.

 

[KriegHund]

Agreed with Alan.

Furthermore, im glad Brazil stays anti-anti-gun. And that article wasnt bad.

 

[Standing Wolf]

...how can an intelligent writer for the BBC not get this?

I'm sure the BBC types do get it. They're simply unwilling to depart from their socialist agenda for the sake of mere facts and logic.

Were you to silence BBC, remember the liklehood of someone coming along and silencing you.

If I were a British subject, I'd be very unhappy that my taxes were being spent on a leftist extremist propaganda organization. Since I'm an American citizen, I merely refuse to have anything to do with the BBC, a contemptible group of leftist extremist parasites.

 

[boofus]

Rebecca Peters must be royalty. Her highness commanded us to all find new hobbies during the 'debate' with Wayne Lapierre.

I can think of so many non-high road things I wish would befall her.

 

[Iain]

Rebecca Peters actually said, "many of the voters believed that owning a gun is a good way to protect yourself, which of course isn't true". WHY NOT?!? She offerred no explaination of her belief that being unarmed is somehow better.

Of course, the BBC simply accepted this as gospel.

I doubt that was the reason why they did not engage in the type of full scale debate that is seen here on THR. Time may have been a more pressing factor.

I'd say, and not just to Flechette, that if you go looking for something you're bound to find something that at least looks like what it is you are looking for. If you squint real hard.

 

[fallingblock]

Australia's ABC is worshipful of the BBC......

"If I were a British subject, I'd be very unhappy that my taxes were being spent on a leftist extremist propaganda organization. Since I'm an American citizen..."
**********************************************************


Many Australians certainly do object to their taxes being spent on mindless propaganda.


**********************************************************
"I merely refuse to have anything to do with the BBC, a contemptible group of leftist extremist parasites."
**********************************************************


Good advice along with a succinct and accurate description of the BBC.

 

[longeyes]

Who anointed Rebecca Peters anyway?

 

[mbs357]

The problem with boycotting BBC is that they play Monty Python.

 

[Joejojoba111]

"No matter how much BBC's orientation, leanings and coverage might annoy perhaps offend some, those who would silence them might consider the following.

1. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
2. More important than that is the following. Were you to silence BBC, remember the liklehood of someone coming along and silencing you."

It looks like the general tone here never got close to suggesting censoring the BBC. If you go back and re-read (or read for the 1st time) you will see that they are complaining about the heavy, prevalent bias in the reporting.

It is a completely fair complaint (especially Fletchette's quote), and changing the discussion by suggesting they want to silence the BBC is either symbolic of not reading their posts, or engaging in a deceptive ruse.

Furthermore, as people stated, it is a government organization, paid by tax dollars. It SHOULD have limits on what it can and cannot say. And when it's tasked with the delicate project of distributing information, then it should walk a very fine line. And they aren't even trying to pretend they're trying to walk that line.

 

[DeseoUnTaco]

Yeah, I made the orig. post and all I did was ponder, "how can they be so biased and how can intelligent people write this." I have no desire to silence them or anyone else. They are supported by taxpayers, but fortunately not by me. But even so, their coverage and bias does reflect the broad consensus of Brits on the gun issue, I believe. Most Brits think that even stronger gun laws might somehow make them safer, like somehow if they can prohibit the Olympic team from practicing in the UK that will prevent the UK team from doing all those driveby shootings (using cop-killer bullets) which they do in other parts of the world.

I like the Beeb and I think they have good reporting. They just have a cultural hysteria about the gun issue. Well, I guess I do too.

By the way it hasn't always been like this. Up until the late 1910s, the official British government policy was that every common man should be armed with a rifle and should know how to use it. This is the heritage of the previous policy which was that every village should be able to provide a large number of skilled longbowmen. A longbow takes a lifetime of practice to use, so by requiring villagers to practice with a bow, they had a supply of soldiers who could use it. Conscript armies in Europe, drawn from untrained peasants, couldn't compare; you can't learn a longbow in a week or a month or even a year. This was a big help to the Brits in their continental wars. Later on, the British common man had enough rifle skill to make quite an impression on the Germans in WWI (although the war was bogged down until tanks came on the scene).

But something happened in the late 1910s: there was a Bolshevik revolution in Russia and there were rumblings of it elsewhere, and the British upper class and leadership decided "time to disarm the peasants lest it happen here." In 1920 they reversed centuries pro-arms policies and started to disarm the common man. This legal effort was backed up by a propaganda effort, and today British Olympic shooters have to train in Switzerland.

It's all sad. I'm hoping the recent victory in Brazil might have ripples around the world. The more freedom people have in Brazil, in the UK, in Europe, in Japan and in Zimbabwe, the more freedom we have here in the US.

 

[Kaylee]

Personally, I can't stand the BBC. The whole advertising bleep they used to have of "Free from Commercial or Political Bias" is just a hoot.

To the "American-sounding" language.. I know some Confederates went way down south after the war.. might some have ended up there? Might bave been an interesting way for the meme to arrive, as it were.

-K

PS -- DeseoUnTaco, thanks for the history lesson! I hadn't thought about that connection before.

 

[DeseoUnTaco]

PS -- DeseoUnTaco, thanks for the history lesson! I hadn't thought about that connection before.

Thanks Kaylee. Here's a good source on the dreadful beginning of British gun control laws, starting with the Blackwell Committe, showing that the laws were all based on a fear of commies.

And here's an exhaustively comprehensive article on British gun laws.

It's all about controlling the people. Their fear of Bolshevism was a fear that the peasants might be angry. So I guess we here on THR probably agree with the Blackwell Committee: gun control is a way to keep the common man powerless. Oddly, they were worried that the common man would try to fight for Bolshevism and now we are worried that our government is going to impose the same thing on us. Whatever. The point is still the same.

 

[Fletchette]

I doubt that was the reason why they did not engage in the type of full scale debate that is seen here on THR. Time may have been a more pressing factor.

I'd say, and not just to Flechette, that if you go looking for something you're bound to find something that at least looks like what it is you are looking for. If you squint real hard.

They had plenty of time to lament the "loss"...

I am not sure if I even understand your last sentence. I didn't have to squint to notice the bias, I was run over by it!

 

[longeyes]

the usual suspects

Soros Justice Fellowships
Guidelines | Grantee List

Grantees
Rebecca Peters

Rebecca Peters will research gun violence and gun control laws internationally, so that countries considering the reform of their gun laws can be informed by the experience elsewhere.

 

[Mk VII]

The report is opinion, not just reporting. It's the correspondent's job to form an opinion on local events in a foreign country and send a piece reflecting his opinions. His viewpoint will broadly reflect the viewpoint which most Englishmen will hold about guns, that their possession should be strictly controlled.

 

[Janitor]

the BBC, a contemptible group of leftist extremist parasites.

Seriously SW ... how do you really feel about them?

-

 

[Iain]

Flechette - my point is this. Almost everyone I know who is politically aware believes that the mainstream media is anti their viewpoint.

Someone I know is a member of the Labour party and believes that the BBC is very anti-government. Many others I know believe that the BBC endlessly reports the government line. A friend is convinced that the BBC is anti-Israeli, I'm sure many believe the precise opposite.

The thing that many of these people are guilty of is going looking for their black swan and accepting a Canadian goose as evidence that at least not all swans are white. You see what you want, in whatever you want. Everybody does.

I'm not terribly pro-BBC, but it seems to me that if they are copping it from both sides, they are probably somewhere near the fence if not sat directly on it.

 

[Fletchette]

Flechette - my point is this. Almost everyone I know who is politically aware believes that the mainstream media is anti their viewpoint.

Thanks for expanding on that.

However, I think your arguement lacks validity due to the relativistic nature; this is the type of logic people use to justify corrupt actions as simply "different point of view".

"In this topsy-turvey world who's to say what is right or wrong" - Bart Simpson

Call me old-fashioned, but I still believe in facts. The BBC was clearly biased, not because I am pro-individual rights, but because they stated it was a "loss" and asked "what went wrong", as opposed to being neutral news reporters and accepting the vote as what the Brazillians want.

 

[Iain]

Well, I guess then you need to bear in mind that the BBC reports from and to a country where guns are not part of everyday life, despite 'gun crime is rising' headlines. I personally know of one person, and very indirectly, who has been the victim of a gun wielding criminal, that's just anecdotal of course.

Guns aren't a big part of British life, and yes, prior to my involvement on THR I would have been slightly bemused by the populace of a country where there are in the region of 40,000 deaths per year as result of crimes committed with guns rejecting a ban. I now know the 'other side', and to be honest I saw BBC reports that covered the 'other side' too.

On my comments being relativistic, unfortunately that is true. I too believe in facts. The facts that I saw were that the BBC didn't report this news with a particularly apparent slant. Funny that eh? Maybe the fact that the BBC didn't have an online 'Have Your Say' discussion about this vote, as I suggested that they should via their 'What do you want to talk about?' page, undermines my argument.

I'm not particularly trying to defend them, I just see that all sides direct fire at the media all the time, and I find that interesting.

 

[MechAg94]

So... the BBC should be biased toward whatever is current public opinion in Great Britain?

I personally don't mind news people injecting opinion, just make sure there is a clean line between the facts they report and their opinion of those facts. I know it will never happen, but is something to strive for.

IMHO, most reporters are not intentionally biased, they just have their view of the world and their circle of friends with their opinions. They can't seem to grasp that the world is full of viewpoints that differ wildly from their own, and that they might be wrong.

On the BBC specifically, they should be held to a higher standard since they are publicly funded.