Bearly an excuse for a lever action

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telomerase

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I'm moving to a house in the woods. Very far out in woods, with black bears. Doubtless the bears will never bother us, but something (possibly one of those newfangled hominid things) might. So, wonderful excuse to buy serious rifle :D

Unfortunately, do not have infinite money :( Therefore, do not want to hear about .50 Beowulf uppers for the $2000 Colt I don't have. Nor M1a, G3, etc. For that kind of money you could get a guard robot and stay on the couch.

Milsurp in serious caliber probably the most financially practical idea. But bolts are big, heavy, and pretty slow against hominids. Even on bears it might be nice to have faster second shots, white hunters seem to have put up with doubles for that reason.

Garands are still expensive and don't like to use civilian ammo without aftermarket gas valves. SKS or WASR doesn't seem to have any decent bear bullets available (and the domestic SPs my friends have tried have jammed their SKSes, which is no recommendation).

Shotguns with slugs seem like a good cheapskate option. Unfortunately no one seems to make 18" barrel stainless pumps with rifle sights. And even 18" pump shotguns are less handy than many rifles. Unless you rifle the shotgun barrel, the accuracy starts to become un-"bear"-able at any range (after all, I might want to actually pick up a deer on purpose at some point). I would probably short-stroke the thing in arctic cold at 3 AM. Pump shotguns rattle. The ammunition is heavy.

So, I'm actually considering a lowly lever action, to get decent bullet construction, portability, stainless steel, and of course the satisfaction that comes from knowing that one is TWO centuries behind potential opponents instead of just one.

But, I have to find one that works. Let's see if I can summarize all the threads on lever reliability:

Rossi Puma: magazine tube falls off. Follower jams. Action is rough. Dinosaur-killing calibers available, in several barrel lengths and stainless. Steve Young will rebuild one into a perfect gun, but then the package will cost more than a match M1A. Safety may go on by itself when bear appears. Removing and covering safety somewhat involved, requires part from Steve Young.

Browning 92: "perfect gun". Unavailable. No stainless models anyway.

Marlin 94: "The Marlin Jam", requires machine shop to fix. 16" models are rarities kept under alarmed cases in museums. Looked down on by Winchester users as "too solid" to be real lever guns. New safety may go on at any time, but can be removed or blocked fairly easily. More expensive than 336.

Winchester 94 "Trapper" pistol-calibers: not really designed for pistol rounds, jamming problems. No stainless.

Winchester 94 30-30s or 7-30 Waters: Less accurate than Marlins. Weaker than Marlins. Harder to mount receiver sights than Marlins. Trappers common, but no stainless. All Winchesters recently doubled in price due to ending production (when will manufacturers learn that to generate any demand they have to stop making their products :D)

Marlin 336: stainless only in 20". 16" out of production. Big and clunky (compared to 16" Puma). Available and only 4 times as expensive as an M44.

BLR, Savage 99, Win 95, Marlin Guide Gun, Wild West, etc. Expensive, lots of blast (otherwise some good options).

So, are there any cheap lever guns that work (or any good antirust coatings for the older 94s or Marlins), or should I just get an M44 and chase off any bears with the bayonet?
 
If I had the dough I would get a Wild West stainless guide gun in .454. That is a pretty versatile gun, and since they are more or less made to order, you can chose length, stock, etc. The take-down feature is really the kicker, though.

Otherwise, I think you can find those used stainless Marlin 16" .44 rifles with the laminated stock and high-vis sights periodically on gunbroker.com. But since this is a bear gun, you will be firing heavy slugs and the Marlins apparently don't have sufficient twist to stabilize anything heavier than 250 grains.

My personal weapon for this exact scenario is a Winchester Trapper in .45LC. With DoubleTap 335 grain hardcast slugs (1650fps), it is a real stopper. Never jammed, yet. Cost me $400 plus an XS ghost ring because I like aperture sights. It is light, handy, reasonably accurate, plenty powerful, and even PC. I see them online now for around $500.

By the way - all the more recent Winchesters are tapped for scope rings from the factory, and I don't think your info on receiver strength is accurate. I have never heard of one blowing. By the way - I bought the .45 because of the jam issue. Apparently it only comes up if you shoot .38s through a .357, or .44 special through a .44 magnum gun. In other words, they may have trouble with shorter rounds, but they are fine with the full-length cartridges. So I merely shoot cowboy ammo through the .45 if I want lighter loads - they are weaker, but just as long as the full-power stuff.

I bought a Puma in .357 for my brother. I replaced the follower and took off the safety and now it is about perfect. Doing those two things took $20 and about 20 minutes. Steve Young will talk you through it. Otherwise, I think it is a hell of a gun. Put an XO sight on it and you are really looking at a good package.

Anyway, that's my input on how I handled the same issue. Personally I like the lever guns because they can be cycled quickly, and they are so light and handy, you are likely to have them when you need them.

Good luck!
 
I have a Winchester 1895 takedown in .30-06 which I had cut down to a 20" barrel. I'll probably take it camping all over the NW for protection. I know it's not as capable as larger capacity AR's, etc. but it is fast enough.

Anyway, these are scarce and kind of pricey. By the time I count gunsmithing and the peep sight, it was probably around $1600.

I'm thinking you might want to look at a Ruger stainless compact in .308 -- it's plenty of power, as light or lighter than most lever-actions, and fast enough if you practice using the bolt. The CRF is reliable, and you can "top off" while the bolt's open at any time, similar to a lever-action. I think they're around $600. You can add a Weaver conversion rail to the integral mounts and add a red dot or holographic sight. (Of course, you can take that off and add a regular scope for deer season...)

Just some ideas.
 
for the bear part of your question, I offer you the solution my folks
used.
remmy 800, 18 inch bbl, Pac pistol grip.
Loads? well thats where it gets fun.
I took birdshot loads, opened them up and poured the birdshot out.
Then I put HEAVY airsoft pellets in their place.
The DOW around here uses similar loads...rubber buckshot.
You CAN buy non-lethal loads online, but they are SPENDY.
So we just used these...wouldn't wanna nail one up close with it, but from
15-20 yards it has some sting...quiet loads too.
So I usually load 2-3 real loads, then 2-3 rubber buckshot loads.
First few rounds are to tell the bear to git, and don't come back.
Should he want more action, you have that ready in the tube too.
That's just what we used, and it works well...helps run the buggers off.

GP
 
Remington 7400 in 30-06.

For bear defense or a carry type of defense rifle I would want something semiauto with a large caliber. The 7400 is available in a synthetic with an alloy coated barrel and receiver. Also 10 shot magazines are available for them. You are going to have more rapid fire capability from this type of rifle without carrying around a "military type" of rifle. Open sights would be fine. $350 at Walmart. I would also go with a .357magnum pistol or larger as a sidearm. In most cases I would probably just carry the sidearm anyway.

A bear hunting rifle would be another matter, but that doesn't sound like what you are after. The 30-06 would still work, but I would want a bolt action and scope.
 
Telo,
Sounds to me like you ought to rethink the bolt action. I don't believe the difference in cycle time is great enough to make a difference.
Why do you want a stainless lever gun. That seems to be the hang up.
I occassionally shoot a Marlin 336 in 35 Remington with 200 grain bullets. Never shot a bear but they do a number on deer. I've never had a jamb and it's good out to 100 yards.
 
my marlin 1894 never jams

probably will now that I've gone and said that.(cost 400 used)
mine is .357 mag, will stop a small black I guess
but I would rather a 45-70 guide gun.
I'm sure you could find one for under 700.
 
There is a Remington 7400 30-06 synthetic with alloy barrel and receiver with a 18.5" barrel on gunbroker.com for $350 buy now price. I used to have a 742 that never gave me any problems and I killed my first 15 or so deer with. With the synthetic/alloy combo you can carry it and not worry about cosmetic damage from daily use. Cheaper than dirt has 10 round metal magazines for $20 each also.
 
Another $0.02 -

Similar to the 7400, but without any problems of gas operation compatibility with "Light Magnum" rounds or cylinder fouling is Remington's 7600. Also available in .30-06 and 18-1/2" barrel, I believe, and as quick as a lever action.
 
Have you considered a pump rifle?

Also, the Marlin 1894 is a very good gun. All guns have their shortcomings, but this one is a very well loved gun by the vast majority of it's owners. .44mag will work at reasonable range agianst just about anythign you throw at it. .45-70 would be even better, but the .44 mag more controlable for fast follow up shots.
 
Saiga sells a rifle in .308 that runs around $400 NIB.

You can also still get Hakims for around $350-$400. It's semiautomatic, and chambered in 8mm Mauser, beyond that, I don't know squat about them except they're friggin' huge.

Though personally I'd take the excuse to buy a lever :D. I've had my eye on a Marlin in .357mag for awhile, but for bear I'd go with the .44mag.
 
I have only experienced one "Marlin Jam" in my 1894 due to reloads with improper OAL, never with factory ammo. And it didn't take a machinist to fix it though we did have to do some rifle disassembly.
 
A lever gun in 45/70 will do the job of making you feel better when the Yeti comes in to eat all your cheetos, track up the floor, and drink your beer.

Black Bear actually do a good job of minding their own business and only become a nuisance if you make them trash hounds.
But, hey, you need a new rifle so you'll feel safe.

For that kind of money you could get a guard robot and stay on the couch.
Click to expand...
This is the funniest line I've ever read for high dollar weapon recommendation response. I'm putting it in my sig. :)
 
I've got a selection of lever guns. No problems with any of them.

Only thing to watch out for is the sling swivel adapter that clamps the mag-tube. If you squeeze it too tight on my Winchester 94 shells can bind in the tube, if you loosen it up, it will swivel around a bit.

Lever guns have always been good to me, just a pain in the rear to load.
 
I am another 1894 owner that is not familiar with "The Marlin Jam".

Is it a Cowboy Action phenomenon related to modified, worn out guns being operated at full speed?
 
Nothing wrong with a good old .30-30, but you can likely pick up an SKS cheaper and those things NEVER NOT go bang. They're powerful enough for any black bear and have good firepower and make fantastic truck/ranch rifles for banging around, very rugged. A lever gun and its tube magazine are a bit more fragile. I'd just pick up a cheap SKS and some milsurp and you can have fun shooting tin cans with it. The noise will keep the bears away. :D

If you are stuck on a lever gun, just find yourself a Marlin 336 and go for it. Might be some good used bargains on the shelves of pawn shops around, usually is. I sorta like the 94 in .44 mag, too, or you could get a .357 mag and use .38s to shoot squirrel. I have a nice little Rossi 92 in .357 I like a lot, Great dual purpose, small game/deer, gun.
 
I compete CAS and have several lever action rifles. I only had problems with a Win .92 and that was fixed after being sent to Steve's Gunz for some serious action work. They are all fine machines now.

As for the bears, I'd go with the Marlin 1895GS 45/70.
 
Only thing to watch out for is the sling swivel adapter that clamps the mag-tube. If you squeeze it too tight on my Winchester 94 shells can bind in the tube, if you loosen it up, it will swivel around a bit.
Click to expand...

That's why I love hearing from people with experience... it lets you know that guns (except AKs) will always fail when needed. The only solution is to emulate the Masai and return to the spear (actually I think they use AKs now).

you can likely pick up an SKS cheaper and those things NEVER NOT go bang. They're powerful enough for any black bear and have good firepower and make fantastic truck/ranch rifles for banging around, very rugged. A lever gun and its tube magazine are a bit more fragile. I'd just pick up a cheap SKS and some milsurp and you can have fun shooting tin cans with it. The noise will keep the bears away.
Click to expand...

I've only seen an SKS fail when it was fed US-made softpoint hunting ammo (sometimes they slamfire, but that isn't exactly "failing" :eek:). That said, if one were ever to shoot at a deer or bear, it would be nice to be able to use softpoint hunting ammo... now someone will tell me to solve all my problems by buying a reloading setup (so as to load softpoints of the correct diameter), a bigger house to put it in, etc.

Saiga sells a rifle in .308 that runs around $400 NIB.
Click to expand...

That would actually work...

Thanks for all the replies.
 
I second the recommendation for a Saiga .308. If you think a standard bolt is too slow, you may also want to look into a K31. The only issue is ammo is a bit spendy (but not more than standard hunting ammo). Should not be an issue if you reload as the cartridge can use standard .30 cal bullets.
 
My buddy married into the Masai
Click to expand...

Holy cows! There must be a story there. (I knew someone was going to bring up the "manly men don't face bears with anything more than a sharp stick" philosophy).

Now I suppose you'll tell me that the sling swivel on his spear has to be lubed with Spotted Hyena grease or it will cause the spear to jam...
 
Any thing from 30-30 thuough 30-06 will serve You proudly. You are trying to overthink this. A wise word from the humble...Essex
 
A Marlin 336 in .30-30 WCF will do you just fine. Load it with factory Rem., Win., Federal cartridges using 170 grains bullets and you will not have any problems if you have to poke a Black bear.

As Essex County said, no need to overthink this non-problem.

Good luck.

L.W.
 
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