bedding question.....

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well I'm sitting at work watching a blizzard out the window......and all our customers have obviously gone home because the phones aren't ringing.....

hence it's my day to start threads and ask dumb questions and to display my ignorance.

On the Remington web site....they only refer to their barrels being bedded on plastic (excuse me, I meant to say "synthetic") stock models. None of the wood stocks are said to be bedded. Why would you not bed a barrel in a wood stock?

On the Savage site they use the term "button-rifled barrel". Can someone please tell me what this means?
 
On the Savage site they use the term "button-rifled barrel". Can someone please tell me what this means?

They way the barrel hole is made...
BUTTON RIFLING.

"Any fool can pull a button through a barrel!" Boots Obermeyer.

Up until WW2 rifling was the most time consuming operation in making a rifle barrel and so a lot of effort was put into finding a way to speed up this process. Button rifling is a process that has been flirted with on and off by various large ordinance factories since the end of the 19th century. Today, button rifling is a cold forming process in which a Tungsten Carbide former, which is ground to have the rifling form in high relief upon it, is pulled through the drilled and reamed barrel blank. The lands on the button engrave grooves in the barrel as it is pulled through.

The machinery is quite simple. The button is mounted on a long rod of high tensile steel which is passed through the barrel blank and attached to a large hydraulic ram. The button is mounted in a "rifling head" that rotates the button at the desired pitch or twist as the button is pulled through the barrel. The process takes about a minute to complete.

Breaking the pull-rod or pulling the button off the pull rod is a constant danger in "pull" button rifling, so there are several manufacturers like Hart, for example, who prefer to push the button through the barrel. In this version of the method the button is not attached to the rod, which simply pushes the button up the barrel under the influence of a large hydraulic ram. The trick here is to support the push-rod as it enters the barrel to stop it buckling from the huge forces involved.

There is much opinion that "pull" button rifling is best because the button is kept straight and true as it is pulled through, whereas when pushing the button though the barrel there is an inevitable tendency for the button to tip and yaw so leading to variable bore dimensions. Push-buttoning protagonists deny that this is a problem however - as of course, they would!

Whilst the process is simple, the technology required to get good results is quite advanced which is why it was not until the middle of this century that it became a generally used technique. It was perfected in the late 1940's at the Remington factory at Ilion largely due to the efforts of Mike Walker, who used the workshop of Clyde Hart in nearby Lafayette for some of the experimental work. The button must be very hard and also tough enough not the break up under the stresses involved as it is pulled through the barrel. The lubricants used to keep the button from getting stuck in the barrel must not break down under the very high pressures involved - it takes around 10,000 pounds of force to pull a button down a barrel. The sort of lubricants used in the press moulding business are what button barrel makers pick through to see what suits, though most makers of button rifled barrels are very secretive about lubricant they use!

Button rifling in its common form is an American development and the overwhelming majority of barrels made in the US are rifled this way. Custom shops such as Hart, Lilja, Shilen and the large high production barrel makers like Douglas and Wilson Arms use the buttoning method to rifle their barrels. The technology has spread and there are a few other small custom barrel makers around the world who do button rifling. Neville Madden (Maddco) and Dennis Tobler in Australia. Anshutz in Germany, better known for their .22 target rifles but also a large producer of hunting rifles also button their barrels.

In Europe, where larger more centralised armament factories predominate, the cold forging method of making "hammered" barrels is generally preferred.

On the Remington web site....they only refer to their barrels being bedded on plastic (excuse me, I meant to say "synthetic") stock models. None of the wood stocks are said to be bedded. Why would you not bed a barrel in a wood stock?
Must people do bed wood stocks. Bedding the barrel from the shank to the front lug. They free float the barrel. Bed the real and front lug to the shank.
 
Given the staggeringly excellent reply about the button rifling question I'll instead answer the bedding question. The deal is that Remington uses "forend tip pressure" bedding. That is to say that the barrel channel as molded into the plastic stock is made so that the last inch or two pushes up against the barrel when the action is tightened into the stock. Why this isn't done on wood stocks may have more to do with wood's natural tendancy to warp with moisture levels. The consummate professional stocking a rifle in wood would bed the entire thing so that a hard unmoving layer of glass met the metal thus assuring the shooter that things won't get squirrelly when the weather changes. Remington appears to be "cutting their losses" so to speak by not bedding them at all. What kind of cracks me up is that I've encountered a goodly crowd of shooters who've found that inserting a matchbook cover between the stock and the recoil lug caused the barrel to free float which in turn shrunk their group size. All things considered I guess you've got to take it one rifle at a time but I'd rather have a pillared stock sans bedding with a free float barrel because this combination has worked very well for me.
 
Submoas, you did good except for a trifling detail about Walker and Hart. Actually, Mike W. did the development work for button rifling entirely within Remington's shops.

That work was on standard Gov. contract provisions that say anyone can use systems developed with the taxpayers money so the idea was open for others to use. Mike was a friend of Wally Hart, Hart was a fellow BR shooter who wanted to make and sell quality barrels. Mike helped Wally set up and start production shortly after the end of WWII.

Mike's major contribution to button rifling, which, as you said, had previously been tried, was to lightly copper plate the bore. The copper wash provided just enough "lubracant" to let the button go through!

At least that's the way Mike tells the story.

Sorry for "hijacking" your barrel bedding question Mr. Sub Vet. Thanks for your service.
 
I feel like I went to school today.....

little rifle technology 101....

little history of inventions 101....

so please suffer me a follow on question....

Are pillared stocks always synthetic? I can see that inserting the pillars into the mold would be an efficient way to do it. But do any mass produced rifles have this type of constuction?

Thanks for "learning me"
 
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