Berry's bullets giving me a headache, need advice

[blitzen]

I've read several threads with simmilar problems and lots of good tips but I'm still not sure what to do.
I am trying to load 9mm 124gr HP Berry's bullets for my Browning HP and my Springfield XDM. Since there is no load data for Berry's bullets I am using the data in the Speer book for 124 gr loads. I am using 5 gr of Unique (a little shy of the published starter load) and a COAL of 1.120. Well, They seem to fit ok in the Browning bbl (ok but not great) They are a no go in the XDM with its match bbl. They stick up at least a full rims thickness. I am sure they are coming into contact with the lands because I covered the bullet and case with black magic marker and whacked it with a screwdriver handle and sure enough there were the marks from the lands on the bullets. If I seat these (clunkers) bullets to a COAL of 1.063 they fit like factory rounds.
My question is, is it ok to seat these bullets to a COAL that works in the gun as long as I reduce the powder charge to a real pipsqueek charge of 3.8 grains of Unique? (3.8 is a starter load for 147 gr bullets in the same manual.
I hate for my Browning or XDM to be test guns. Thanks!

 

[woodsoup]

Most plated bullets use load data for lead bullets. The COL numbers are generic. You're on the right path by reducing your loads for the shorter COL.

 

[RustyFN]

You can load berry's with FMJ data up to 1200 FPS. I have always loaded them with FMJ data, 4.2 grains of Titegroup. This is from Berry's web site.

*How do I load Berry's Preferred Plated Bullets?
Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads.

*How fast can I shoot these bullets?
Velocities depend on the caliber, but as a rule of thumb, we recommend you don't shoot our plated bullets over 1200 feet-per-second. Our 44's actually shoot best around 1150 fps. 45's are generally good at 850-900 fps. Our bullets are not recommended for magnum velocities.

*Can I shoot your plated bullets in my Glock?
Yes. We have a large contingent of loyal Glock shooters using our bullets. The plating is thick enough that you will not get lead fouling in your bore, which is the nemesis of polygonal barrels.

Rusty

 

[ReloaderFred]

As stated, seat them where they need to be to chamber. I also use jacketed data for the 9mm Berry's bullets.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[blitzen]

Thanks for the replies. It looks to me like the bullet comes very close to bore diameter way closer to the tip of the bullet than the various factory ammo I have to compare with. Berry's bullet is .345 about .20 inches from the tip. The factory round doesn't come to that until about .09 from the mouth of the case. Big difference. I think the shape is throwing things all out of whack for me. Anyone else run up against this same thing? All I need are some nice shootin rounds, no need to hotrod anything.

 

[ReloaderFred]

The Berry's 124 grain FP and HP bullets are my bullet of choice for everyday 357 Sig shooting in my Springfield XD, which also has a very short leade. These bullets have long shanks, which contributes to their accuracy, which I've found to be very good.

Just work up a dummy round and see where you have to seat the bullets to work in your XD, which is going to have the shortest leade. The Browning HP usually has a long leade, so it's going to shoot just about anything that will fit in the chamber. It won't necessarily be as accurate as the XD, but it won't be as fussy about what it's fed.

Once you get the overall length issue worked out, then you can work on your load.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Walkalong]

I like the Berrys bullets, and shoot a lot of them, but I have found the 9MM 124 Gr HP to be somewhat of a finicky feeder in some guns. I prefer the RN plated bullets in 9MM.

 

[rcmodel]

Anyone else run up against this same thing?

Oh yea!
But worse then that, the last box of 124 HP's I bought about a year ago ended up having three sizes of bullets in the same box. They were the same 124 HP 9mm Barry bullet you are having problems with.

I was having problems getting every one to chamber in my SIG P6, even seated very short.

Finally started measuring bullets and found I had .355", .356" and .357" 9mm bullets in the same box. The .355" & .356" would chamber, but the .357" were hitting the leade unless the full dia shoulder was seated clear down inside the case.

Finally ran them all through a Lyman Lubrasizer .356" die to get them all to chamber.

You might want to measure a bunch of them and see if they are all the same size.

rc

 

[rfwobbly]

That happens to me all the time....

Blitzen -
You may be seeing the same issue I see on my CZ pistols. A lot of accuracy is gained by placing the rifling closer to the chamber, that is to say, by reducing the "freebore". On such firearms you do indeed want to seat the bullet deeper so as to get the nose of the bullet at least .005" away from the rifling. But since the rifling is touching the nose of the bullet about halfway down the conical face, the new OAL for your barrel can be very hard to calculate. However it can be measured.

So at this point you have two choices.

1) Use only standard ogive (RN) nose bullets in this gun. The shape of the ogive drops away much faster than on FP and HP bullets and so gives a greater clearance to the rifling. Of course, it may also possibly engage less rifling for the same weight bullet.

2) Measure the exact fit of the FP bullet in your chamber. This is done by sliding a new bullet into a fired case. If you'll try several cases, you'll soon find one that will take a very slight pressure to move the bullet within the case. That is, it will "telescope" with only about an ounce of pressure.

Set the bullet as barely engaged into the case. Then slide the case into your dis-assembled barrel until the case head-spaces on the end of the chamber. The rifling will then seat the bullet deeper in the case for you. Carefully pull the cartridge out and measure the OAL. That is the MAXIMUM cartridge length. To find the OAL, subtract .010" from that number. (.005" for rifling offset, plus .005" to cover length variations on the average reloading press.)

That is YOUR new OAL for THAT bullet in YOUR barrel. Every time you change suppliers, bullet weights, nose shapes, etc you must do this exercise again with the new bullet.

Then all you have to do is develop or find new load data for the new OAL.

Hope this helps!

 

[blitzen]

All this info helps a lot! Many thanks!

 

[rfwobbly]

Blitzen -
The bottom line is.... you'll have to pay more attention to the shape of the conical nose when loading for this pistol. At some point due to the angle of the cone-shaped nose, and the severely reduced OAL, some bullet choices common to other shooting pals become unusable. That is, the OAL gets to be so very short that FTF errors start to show up. Follow?

In my CZ pistols, FP's with stubby noses, like Zero, cannot be successfully used. FP's I have found acceptable are Berry, Montana Gold, Hornady, and Precision.

Hope this helps!

 

[Ben Shepherd]

You need a chrono badly here. Yes, seat them deeper and reduce the charge accordingly. But without a chrono to judge velocity, you're really just guessing at what pressures you're running with.

Velocity isn't an absolute measure of pressure by any means, but at least you have a MUCH better idea of where your pressure's at.