AJC1
Member
Sucks the 200 isn't a plane base as the check doubles the cost. I'm pretty sure it was made for 35 rem and in that case a check makes sense.
Best .38 Special Handloads
- Thread starter film495
- Start date
.308 Norma
Member
Doesn't sound "boring" to me. Remember, "Boring is as boring does."
Forrest Gump
I just machined out one of the cavities in the mold to make it plane base.
Last night I looked at my Phillip Sharpe "Complete Guide to Handloading" Mine is a 1950's edition, not the 1937 first edition!
The only powders Phillip Sharpe shows for the 38 Special are Bullseye pistol and Unique. It is my recollection that Bullseye pistol powder was commonly used by cartridge manufacturers, may have been the original smokeless powder used. Lafflin and Rand also had "Sharpshooter" , "Lightning" "W.A 30 " and "Infallible" powders. Bullseye was advertised for pistols and revolvers, "Infallible" for shotguns, the others for rifles. Sharpshooter was for reduced loads in rifles, don't know if it was used in handgun cartridges. Unique came on the market place in 1900.
It is possible that giga tons of Bullseye and Unique have been blown down the tubes of 38 Specials. I do know both powders were popular competition powders, even now a 148 LWC with 2.7 grains is a go to target load. I think the bullet has to be close to 700 fps to stay stable at 50 yards.
Colt Python Stainless Steel, 6" Barrel
148 gr LBBWC 2.7 grs Bullseye 38 SPL cases CCI500
24 Sept 1999 T = 78 ° F
Ave Vel = 710
Std Dev = 18
ES = 72.02
High = 746.1
Low = 674
Number rds = 32
I settled on 3.5 grains Bullseye pistol powder with a 158 lead (RN, LSWC, etc) and have shot tens of thousands of rounds through a wide variety of 38 Special cartridges. My velocity goal is 760 fps out of a four inch barrel, this based on early factory chronograph data. This load is accurate out to 50 yards in everything. I am confident the load is standard pressure, Sharpe's book shows some pressure tested 158 grain loads at 1000 fps! Too fast for me! I also settled on 158 grain bullets because the vast majority of my fixed sight revolvers are regulated for 158 grain bullets.
shoots to point of aim with a 158 grain bullet
shoots to point of aim
shoots to point of aim
shoots to point of aim
an honorable mention is a 158 lead with 4.5 grains Unique. Unique will allow a bit more velocity, I do not want to "push" pressures with Bullseye pistol powder.
same ammunition, same day, slightly different velocities. That is one of the screwy things that happens, which is why velocities claims must be taken with a grain of salt. Especially from advertisers.
S&W M64-5 Georgia Department Corrections
158 LRN 4.5 grs Unique lot UN 364 3/9/1992 Brass mixed cases WSP
10-Jun-20 T = 85 °F
Ave Vel = 779.6
Std Dev = 27.4
ES = 109.7
High = 826
Low = 716.3
Number rounds =17
158 LRN 4.5 grs Unique lot UN 364 3/9/1992 Brass mixed cases WSP
10-Jun-20 T = 85 °F
Ave Vel = 794.7
Std Dev = 29.9
ES = 143.7
High = 851.7
Low = 708
N = 24
The only powders Phillip Sharpe shows for the 38 Special are Bullseye pistol and Unique. It is my recollection that Bullseye pistol powder was commonly used by cartridge manufacturers, may have been the original smokeless powder used. Lafflin and Rand also had "Sharpshooter" , "Lightning" "W.A 30 " and "Infallible" powders. Bullseye was advertised for pistols and revolvers, "Infallible" for shotguns, the others for rifles. Sharpshooter was for reduced loads in rifles, don't know if it was used in handgun cartridges. Unique came on the market place in 1900.
It is possible that giga tons of Bullseye and Unique have been blown down the tubes of 38 Specials. I do know both powders were popular competition powders, even now a 148 LWC with 2.7 grains is a go to target load. I think the bullet has to be close to 700 fps to stay stable at 50 yards.
Colt Python Stainless Steel, 6" Barrel
148 gr LBBWC 2.7 grs Bullseye 38 SPL cases CCI500
24 Sept 1999 T = 78 ° F
Ave Vel = 710
Std Dev = 18
ES = 72.02
High = 746.1
Low = 674
Number rds = 32
I settled on 3.5 grains Bullseye pistol powder with a 158 lead (RN, LSWC, etc) and have shot tens of thousands of rounds through a wide variety of 38 Special cartridges. My velocity goal is 760 fps out of a four inch barrel, this based on early factory chronograph data. This load is accurate out to 50 yards in everything. I am confident the load is standard pressure, Sharpe's book shows some pressure tested 158 grain loads at 1000 fps! Too fast for me! I also settled on 158 grain bullets because the vast majority of my fixed sight revolvers are regulated for 158 grain bullets.
shoots to point of aim with a 158 grain bullet
shoots to point of aim
shoots to point of aim
shoots to point of aim
an honorable mention is a 158 lead with 4.5 grains Unique. Unique will allow a bit more velocity, I do not want to "push" pressures with Bullseye pistol powder.
same ammunition, same day, slightly different velocities. That is one of the screwy things that happens, which is why velocities claims must be taken with a grain of salt. Especially from advertisers.
S&W M64-5 Georgia Department Corrections
158 LRN 4.5 grs Unique lot UN 364 3/9/1992 Brass mixed cases WSP
10-Jun-20 T = 85 °F
Ave Vel = 779.6
Std Dev = 27.4
ES = 109.7
High = 826
Low = 716.3
Number rounds =17
158 LRN 4.5 grs Unique lot UN 364 3/9/1992 Brass mixed cases WSP
10-Jun-20 T = 85 °F
Ave Vel = 794.7
Std Dev = 29.9
ES = 143.7
High = 851.7
Low = 708
N = 24
GeoDudeFlorida
Member
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- Dec 1, 2020
- Messages
- 11,106
For years I only had two powders: Bullseye and Unique. I only needed two powders because I only shot one revolver, a 4-5/8” Ruger Blackhawk .357Mag. I only used the revolver for hunting and informal targets so I didn’t need any more power than what it took to drop a Florida Whitetail at point blank range and a feral pig at the same. The 160gr Speer SJHP and a small selection of cast and swaged lead - HBWC, LRN-FP, LSWC, and a few others - mostly in the 110-200gr range, were staple items.
Today I look for copies of those old, familiar bullets updated to improve handling. I have way more powder than I need.
Today I look for copies of those old, familiar bullets updated to improve handling. I have way more powder than I need.
I am definitely not a powder snob, I have load 15,200 rounds of 38 special and 357 magnum using Bullseye ( all target loads only different is the case), also 8,471 of the same using Unique.
But. we once had a ammunition company here in town that reloaded 38 special for the police and sheriffs department's, they would sell me HP-38 and W231 at a very good price out of their kegs, all I needed was a clean glass peanut butter jar and they sold me CCI primers too.
If I remember right a box of 50 rounds with my cast bullets, cost me about 58 cents a box.
But. we once had a ammunition company here in town that reloaded 38 special for the police and sheriffs department's, they would sell me HP-38 and W231 at a very good price out of their kegs, all I needed was a clean glass peanut butter jar and they sold me CCI primers too.
If I remember right a box of 50 rounds with my cast bullets, cost me about 58 cents a box.
.45Coltguy
Member
Curious as to where you found this data. Thanks.The 38 sleeper. You won’t read about it elsewhere. But that’s why you asked, right?
Bullet: MBC 180 grain pugnose cast Hi-Tek coated, 0.357” dia, 18 BHN
Powder: Tightgroup 4.0 grains
Primer: Don‘t matter
OAL: 1.50” , roll crimped, matters a lot
4” barrel 820 fps
6” barrel 830 fps
16” barrel 970 fps
Will punch two holes, one in, one out.
Why? Just because you can? Didn't even know that was possible, fascinating.
.38 Special
Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2006
- Messages
- 7,371
CAUTION THIS POST CONTAINS LOAD DATA WHICH WILL BLOW YOU AND YOUR GUN STRAIGHT TO ETERNITY
My most-used .38 load by far is 2.7 Bullseye and a 148 HBWC from Hornady.
For "standard" .38 loads I really like the useless old 158 lead RN at +/- 750 FPS. These usually are backed with Unique (4.0 to 4.5 grains is about right, most of the time) but lots of common powders work equally well. I wouldn't dream of using these for defense, and the holes they leave in paper are somewhat ragged, but for plinking and other fun, they are delightful - and usually quite accurate.
I no longer bother with +p and hotter loads in the .38, preferring to leave that sort of thing to guns chambered for .357 Magnum. I have done some work with ridiculously hot .38 loads meant for use in .357 guns. Between 13 and 13.5 grains of 2400, used with the 357158 SWC crimped in the lower groove, will give about 1200 fps from a 4" gun. This might still be a useful load in a .357 snub, as the .38 cases eject better with the short ejector rod. Otherwise I think they are pointless and dangerous. I completely abandoned the project after deciding that the possibility of accidentally slipping one of the little grenades into a cheap .38 just wasn't worth the risk of keeping them around.
My most-used .38 load by far is 2.7 Bullseye and a 148 HBWC from Hornady.
For "standard" .38 loads I really like the useless old 158 lead RN at +/- 750 FPS. These usually are backed with Unique (4.0 to 4.5 grains is about right, most of the time) but lots of common powders work equally well. I wouldn't dream of using these for defense, and the holes they leave in paper are somewhat ragged, but for plinking and other fun, they are delightful - and usually quite accurate.
I no longer bother with +p and hotter loads in the .38, preferring to leave that sort of thing to guns chambered for .357 Magnum. I have done some work with ridiculously hot .38 loads meant for use in .357 guns. Between 13 and 13.5 grains of 2400, used with the 357158 SWC crimped in the lower groove, will give about 1200 fps from a 4" gun. This might still be a useful load in a .357 snub, as the .38 cases eject better with the short ejector rod. Otherwise I think they are pointless and dangerous. I completely abandoned the project after deciding that the possibility of accidentally slipping one of the little grenades into a cheap .38 just wasn't worth the risk of keeping them around.
Nipty
Member
The bullets are older than me. My father in law gave me the bullets. Wanted to know if anyone had any suggestions on powder. I have old Sierra manual for them
. However, figured xtp data.
. However, figured xtp data.
rfwobbly
Member
One of the issues with 38Spcl is the broad range of bullet weights available. So when faced with a broad range of bullet weights, of course you'll have a broad range of powders. And more so than in an auto-pistol, due to the unique capabilities found in a revolver, even more powders are needed to cover the various jobs of SD, hunting and target.
As an example, the optimal bullet velocity for 38Spcl target loads is around 750fps. Bullets going that slow can't begin to operate your normal 9mm handgun.... and so you'll never see that type load data in your load manual. But that is a very common task for a 38Spcl revolver.
As an example, the optimal bullet velocity for 38Spcl target loads is around 750fps. Bullets going that slow can't begin to operate your normal 9mm handgun.... and so you'll never see that type load data in your load manual. But that is a very common task for a 38Spcl revolver.
Last edited:
gwpercle
Member
When you find a load you like ... you stick with it !I have loaded 57,391 rounds of 38 special with W231/HP-38, so you could say I like it.
WOW ... 57, 391 rounds loaded ... That Is Impressive !
I wish I had thought to keep a count when I started loading them in 1967 ... but it never dawned on me that 56 years would fly by and I would look back and think ... I wonder how many I've reloaded
Gary
I've been using that same load for almost 50 years.
TTv2
Member
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2016
- Messages
- 4,997
The multiball that uses two 000 Buck pellets. I had some time at work the past couple weeks, I turned out some flat faced seating stems because with the concave stems the top ball had a habit of being pressed into the stem and being pulled back out the mouth. Flat stems don't have that problem and I do not know what companies don't include both a concave and flat seat stem with their revolver caliber die sets as most revolvers use flat nose, SWC, and wadcutter bullets which get slightly deformed when using a concave seater stem.
Old guy in 1987, told me to record everything, so I did. Over all between everything rifle, revolver, and shotgun 206,254 rounds.When you find a load you like ... you stick with it !
WOW ... 57, 391 rounds loaded ... That Is Impressive !
I wish I had thought to keep a count when I started loading them in 1967 ... but it never dawned on me that 56 years would fly by and I would look back and think ... I wonder how many I've reloaded
Gary
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I use HS-6 for loading a replica FBI Load.
I use AA#5 to replicate the Speer .38 Special 135gr GDHP +P load.
To replicate the short barrel Speer GDHP short barrel .357 Magnum load with Power Pistol.
What I'm getting at is, like said already in this thread if you want to load +P loads you will need at least medium burn speed powders, not my favorite W231 and others in that class.
I use AA#5 to replicate the Speer .38 Special 135gr GDHP +P load.
To replicate the short barrel Speer GDHP short barrel .357 Magnum load with Power Pistol.
What I'm getting at is, like said already in this thread if you want to load +P loads you will need at least medium burn speed powders, not my favorite W231 and others in that class.
P Flados
Member
It all depends on purpose and gun.
Poking holes in paper with a 6" 357 revolver can be done with either low cost / low power rounds using a fast powder (I use Promo & TiteGroup) or with a 38 SP +P type load if more "bang" is desired. Fast powder at book max might be Ok for the "more bang" loads, but stepping up to a more medium powder is also an option. Cast bullets in the 125 gr range will do pretty good for either of the above unless more recoil is desired. Any serious use will not be 38s.
For double action practice with a really light weight gun, I want a really light bullet (I have a 95 gr and a 105 gr I like) and a small charge of fast powder.
For me, serious applications would call for something more like a 158 RNFP loaded to +P power level with a medium burn rate pistol powder.
Poking holes in paper with a 6" 357 revolver can be done with either low cost / low power rounds using a fast powder (I use Promo & TiteGroup) or with a 38 SP +P type load if more "bang" is desired. Fast powder at book max might be Ok for the "more bang" loads, but stepping up to a more medium powder is also an option. Cast bullets in the 125 gr range will do pretty good for either of the above unless more recoil is desired. Any serious use will not be 38s.
For double action practice with a really light weight gun, I want a really light bullet (I have a 95 gr and a 105 gr I like) and a small charge of fast powder.
For me, serious applications would call for something more like a 158 RNFP loaded to +P power level with a medium burn rate pistol powder.
Win231, Bullseye, Unique ... seem to come up a lot. Win231 popular for regular pressure target loads. What makes Bullseye and Unique better at higher pressures of +P? Seems like that has come up a few times, are they preferable in say 9mm or .357?
AJC1
Member
They are generally published in load data with plus p. I played with the plus p data in my Lyman book for red dot and regular maximum of 3.4 with a cast 158 was better/more accurate. Western powders published a lot of plus p data in their manual.
.45Coltguy
Member
Not sure how to answer that. I've only used Unique in .38spl and 2400 or Universal in .357. Just didn't see a need to look further.
yea, it is interesting. find something that works and stick with it. I've only used Win231, for plinking loads, seems decent, but I've had some unburnt powder at 3.3 grains over 158 grain lead. Kind of light, will probably move that up. Think I made some test rounds at 3.3, 3.4, 3.5 etc. not sure how high I went, maybe 3.6, still have to go out and shoot them. From what I read, some opinions on Win231 are it is good all the way up through .38+P pressures, and then kind of doesn't perform that well, but others use it for .357 and 9mm and have no issues, so - think I'll just use that and if it works it works. Should work, but at some point I plan to do .357 for a carbine as well and I think I'll probably want another powder for that, but maybe not. Seems a lot of people use another powder for .357, so - part of what I'm thinking is to maybe find another powder to try that would be for +P and .357 if such a thing exists. HS6 seems to get talked about on a search a bit. Maybe I should just stick with the Win231 until I find something that doesn't seem to work right.
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