Best carry gun for a newbie?

[atek3]

Not to ruffle any feathers, but all this talk of ultra heavy trigger pulls=safety is absurd. New York PD installed New York triggers because it was a heck of a lot cheaper than giving all their cops good training. If you keep your finger outside the trigger guard until your sights are on the target you aren't going to have an ND (negiligent discharge) while drawing or holstering. These guns don't fire themselves. Heavy triggers don't make guns more safe, however, they do make it much harder to hit small and/or far targets.

Also while you are considering which gun to get spend twice as much time thinking who's training you're going to attend. Carry Gun and Newbie... I'm just getting chills. I'm not saying you need to be mr. 4-gun combat master, but 2 days of quality instruction will make you safer and better than half the gun owners in this country regarding practical pistol usage.

Consider taking Sept 13th and going to Insights Training Center for their basic handgun class.
The class runs from 8am-6pm and covers a lot for a one day class. They provide the guns and ammo so you'll likely get to try a few different pieces on for size.

http://www.insightstraining.com/ps/courses/hand/basic.htm

I've never been to insights so I can't vouch, but one of my friends has, he said they were excellent.

atek3

 

[SelfProclaimedExpert]

Atek,

Who's recommending "ultra heavy trigger pulls"? Some of us are recommending pistols with normal DA triggers, like most police and military have used for a century. Have you ever shot a Sig?

I recommended against "ultra" light trigger pulls like in the standard Glock because they require very good habits; habits someone new is going to need time to develop. And it isn't just new shooters who have ran afoul of the Glock and its unblocked SA weight trigger.

I'm willing to bet this isn't the first discussion of the relative safety of Glock type trigger systems on this forum - it happens on all forums. But there is no need to exagerate the difficulty in controlling a DA trigger at combat ranges. It's just not a problem.

 

[cslinger]

I like double action decockers it is just what I am comfotable with. Don't like the Glock trigger both from a lightness to the fact that I just don't like the way it feels when I pull it. I also like an external hammer.

Based on all that, I still think the Glock 26, 27, 30 or 36 is the way this guy should go. You just need to be aware that Glocks, like any guns, require training on their manual of operations and that Glock triggers are a little less forgiving to screwups. I also don't care for guns that require you to pull the trigger to break them down. Not big deal but a preferance.

Once again I think based on Joey93turbo's requirements a small Glock is about the best bang for his buck. But he should be aware of the things he should be careful with regarding the Glocks quirks and manual of arms, just like my SIGs have quirks and certain aspects I need to be aware of.

I don't like Glocks but I am not a Glock basher. I mean just because they suck doesn't mean I should bash them right?

 

[MJRW]

Joey,

Please please please don't discount the Glock 19. The size difference between the 19 and 26 makes almost no difference in concealability but makes an big difference in shootability.

 

[Matthew_Q]

I'd second or third or to whatever degree the Bersa Thunder .380.

$199 in most places. Order a couple more mags and get ammo to practice with. Finding a holster might be a little tough, but the Thunder 380 is getting popular. I think Comp-tac makes a few Kydex holsters.

Benefits:

Lightweight, small, accurate, inexpensive gun, inexpensive ammo.


Drawbacks: It's not a J frame snubby (I don't even have one, but I gotta go witht the theme)


People might dog it since it's a 380, but a hit with a 380 is better than a miss with a .45!

 

[joey93turbo]

Atek thanks alot for that link, I think I'll register for that class. I was looking for a class to take but wasn't sure which one was best.

MJRW, I'll check out the Glock 19 while I'm at the gun shop.

I think there's a range near me that rents guns, I'm going to go find out. I definately want to hold and hopefully shoot all these that you guys are suggesting to find the one that I like best.

 

[ojibweindian]

My carry gun is a CZ-75. I now have a little over 1000 rounds through it and have yet to experience any failures. Accuracy is pretty darn good, too.

Another good one is the Browning Hi-Power. A beautiful weapon, reliable, and lots of standard capacity magazines are still around.

 

[atek3]

I'm going to have to differ on the 26/19 debate. A 19 is a LOT more shootable, but you can't ankle or pocket carry it.
For a first gun a glock 26 would likely be a handful. But for a more experienced shooter, one might conceal it with the small mags that come w/ and have larger mags with grip extentions as backups, because any time you need to reload in a gun fight, the more control you have over your firearm, the better.

atek3

 

[antediluvianist]

Get a stainless (for the sweat) S&W snubby in .38spl. Use +P rounds. One more vote for a revolver.

 

[MyRoad]

I rented a Kahr MK9 at my local range (I don't own a Kahr). I didn't like it at all, the trigger pull was long and felt about 8#. When I mentioned that to someone, they told me that I should look at the "Elite" models, that they have a much lighter, better, trigger. I'm not saying that you should go for the Elite model per se, just be sure which model you are renting so you know what your firing. Also, the range near me does not take very good care of its rental guns -- some do, some don't -- something else to keep in mind.

Lastly, if you do not have a gun that you are familiar with, if you do not have good training, and/or if you do not have a good holster system worked out (tested and practiced), just MHO, but if you don't have these criteria than carrying can be more of a liability than a benefit.

Be careful, practice often.

 

[billcameron]

Well first let us not forget he wants to conceal under a T shirt. People vary on what they can conceal, but he really needs to check this out before purchase. However, few people in my experience can conceal a K frame smith or ruger GP-100 under a T shirt. Also he wants cheap practice ammo and a reliable defensive caliber. I think this means 9mm in auto or 38/357 in revolver. I also suspect he may want something that is fun to shoot and that he can hit paper target or cans with at 25yds and maybe he also wants something that he could be somewhat competitive with in IDPA or IPSC match. A revolver in an IDPA match would be tough for beginner and if in addition using small revolver (ie conceals under T shirt) he would be at a real disadvantage. In my limited experience Kahrs are accurate, but hard to shoot accurately, esp fast shooting. Same goes for J frame smiths, that I have more experience with as I presently own four. To meet all his criteria I think a 9mm along lines of sig 239 or glock 26 is way to go. But consider sig 225 and glock 19 if he can conceal adequately under Tshirt, which is one of his primary criteria. For most people these somewhat larger guns handle better. I carry a glock 26 or 27. I have installed a NY 1 trigger spring and retained standard connector. This makes trigger heavier, but to me less creep and better break. I like heavier pull as I use inside the waistband holster. My major concern is a piece of shirt getting caught just right (or just wrong if you will) on trigger and trigger safety. I feel a heavier pull gives me some extra margin of safety. Also if you hold person at gunpoint you should keep finger off trigger, but we are all human and the finger may go to trigger. Again a heavier pull gives you some added margin for error. A NY 1 trigger spring runs around $3 - the postage will probably set you back more than cost of item. I can change out trigger spring in far less time than it took me to write this post.

 

[usnavymasterchief]

JOEY, Sigs are fantastic guns BUT you'll have to take a second mortgage on your house to afford one. Most used ones have been work horses and have been rode hard, but buying any used gun is a crap shoot.
I only have three more words of advise for you KAHR, KAHR and KAHR. Oh yeah three more to remember STAINLESS, STAINLESS and STAINLESS.
Three words to forget, POLYMER, POLYMER and POLYMER.
Good Luck Joey just get what feels good to you. I still think it should be a revolver.
John

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

The Beretta compact type M. Slender grip, accurate, easy to strip for cleaning, fun to use, little recoil and the 9mm allows you a lot of practice time. I've got two at the moment and looking to buy more.

 

[SelfProclaimedExpert]

Masterchief,

If a Sig 239 is a little over $500, and a Kahr is a little over $500, why is the Sig too expensive and the Kahr just right?

The 239 is not as expensive as other Sigs because it was made here, but it is still a Sig and 95% the same as any other Sig 22X gun.

 

[usnavymasterchief]

SELF PROCLAIMED EXPERT Go to www.gunfinder.net They are a cost +10% dealer. Prices to follow:
Sig 232 .380 (stainless) $562.99
Sig 239 $596
Sig 239-40BSS $694.99 (stainless)
Sig 229 9mm $769
Sig 229 sport $1497.00

Kahr K40 Stainless $583

I bought my Kahr K40 Stainless with Trijicon Nite Sites brand new at a gun show for $489 + 7%tax.
The Sigs are a little large to conceal under a t shirt. My Kahr K40 tucks in and disappears under a t shirt.
John

 

[SelfProclaimedExpert]

MC,

I guess it pays to shop around. The most common price I've seen on 239s is $520. Kahr K, MK, P and MP models range from $480 on up. This is in gun stores, or on Gunsamerica, just looking at NIB prices.

The Kahr used to be a bargain at about $350 or so. The E9 (economy version) is now over $400.

I would rather buy a noticeably cheap Sig than pay the price that Kahr, XD and Glock have inflated to over the last ten years. And it's not ordinary inflation, during that time Beretta and Sig stayed steady and Walther went down.

 

[Bravo11]

My turn with the 2 cents.
I recommend a Sig 239. I have a 9mm mainly because ammo is cheap and is doesn't cost me as much to go the range and have a good time. I use my 239 for a carry weapon but I really like to shoot my guns and 9's are fun. Next, if you like full size(gov't) 1911's don't be discouraged by thinking it won't conceal well, I've carried one with just a T-shirt plenty of times.
I looked(looking) at the Springfield XD and it may be my next purchase, most people I've talked to like them. Good luck and let us know what you end up getting.

 

[joey93turbo]

What do you guys think about the Colt Defender? I would eventually like to carry a .45 anyway, so would it be a bad idea to just spend a little extra now and get one?

 

[atek3]

kimber makes great 1911's but they are expensive

atek3

 

[joey93turbo]

Heh yeah I noticed. This colt is supposedly as good as the Kimber's but much cheaper.

 

[usnavymasterchief]

JOEY, You admittedly are a newbie to handguns. Now you are talking about guns the experts and old pros like to use. Remember, you have to crawl before you can run.
Carrying a .45 cal 1911 "cocked and locked" is cool but only for experienced shooters. 1911's for the most part are excellent guns for experienced people. Much like the Harley Davidsons of my generation (in the 50's and 60's) you had to be really good to ride one well and you had to be prepared to fix it when it broke. Most newbie riders couldn't do either.
Joey, have you attended any approved gun handling/safety classes? If so do you have a CCW license? Just out of curiosity, do you mind telling me how old you are? (By the way I'm 66 for what thats worth, been there done that, if you know what I mean.)
Only trying to help, not to burst your bubble. John

 

[Berg01]

Hey Bud, you're new to the game and welcome to it. This is the advice I got from my firearms instructor, who has enough NRA training and teaching certifications to stuff a three-ring binder. This is the best advice anyone can give you on the subject;

Before you start shopping, go enroll in a Basic Handgun Safety Course. After the course, ask the instructor for a recommendation on a firearm. In all likelihood, he will tell you to go out and rent or borrow any and every handgun, in every caliber from .22 LR to .45 ACP, and keep good mental notes (or even a small written journal) on what you like, and what you don't like about each one. Don't worry about what the gunrags, the gunstore commandos, or the forum dwellers say, the only opinion that counts is yours, the only person you have to impress is YOURSELF. I rented at least a dozen different guns before I bought my first one, and anytime I got invited to go out and shoot a different gun, I jumped at the chance.

The thing that got me hooked and keeps me hooked is that its FUN TO GO SHOOT GUNS. To me, everything else is secondary; if I'm enjoying myself, I want to keep doing it, and then maybe someday i'll get to the point where I can honstly say I'm good at it (I ain't there yet!).

 

[joey93turbo]

Thanks for the reality check John, you're right, I am getting ahead of myself. I am enrolled in two gun safety classes at them moment. After I take them I'm going to get the CCW license. I am 21.

 

[Felonious Monk]

Welcome Joey!

The members of this forum would be remiss if someone didn't step up and offer for your consideration a Kel-Tec P-11.
Smallest, lightest 9mm going.

Simple design, DAO trigger (like a J-Frame or SP-101), no BS external safeties (unlike a 1911), easy to "tweak" to be as good or better for a CCW than ANY europlastic SiGlocKoch on the market. And it takes S&W 59 and 69 series high-capacity mags (up to 15+1 rounds).
OEM night sights available
With an out the door price of around $250 depending on slide finish and night sights, you can get a nice holster and a fair amount of 9mm ammo to practice with, all for your ORIGINAL statement of wanting to spend $350.

Someone mentioned the Taurus PT-111. It's an inferior copy of the Kel-Tec design, and the KT's carry a lifetime warranty (honored even if you're the 2nd or 3rd owner).

Kel-Tec Support is the 'Best in the Business'.
Their head gunsmith, Marty, even hangs out at some of the gun forums (as "evilloki1").
You can ask him questions over at Kel-Tec Owner's Group forum, www.ktog.org/vbulletin, if you have any trouble with your guns, or want to learn more about them.

If you're fairly new to CCW, and want a small, reliable, semi-auto, this is it.
Or, buy a Kahr and spend twice the money for almost the same quality.
(Better put your flame suit on, young fella-- I just poured the Avgas.)

 

[usnavymasterchief]

FELONIOUS MONK or Fignozzle, Did you change your handle or suddenly get religion?
Come on old Monkster, I own and carry both a P11 and a Kahr K40. Just to pour a little more gas on the fire, you and I both know the Kahr K40 at $489.00 new with Trijicons is well worth the $200.00 difference.
My Kahr ran 100% right out of the box. My P11 had to be fluffed and buffed and a trip back to the factory before it ran at 98%. The Kahr is all stainless while the P11 is part polymer. Out of the box, the Kahr trigger action is FAR superior to the P11.
By the time you have night sights installed, send the P11 back to the factory a couple of times to be repaired and to have the Hard Chrome slide installed that you should have bought in the first place. Do all the excellent mods that are outlined on the KTOG site (and they are good) you will have experienced a lot more down time and spent money which will bring you up very close to what the Kahr would have cost you in the first place.
The P11 is a great little hobby gun and I do enjoy mine but in a side by side comparison, an all stainless Kahr (not their polymer versions) will come out on top everytime.
Don't know many LEO's who carry P11's as a bug, many LEO's carry Kahr's.
Some of you KTOG'ers will view me as a turncoat and that simply is not true, I shoot and enjoy my P11 a lot, but IMHO it's not a great recommendation for a newbie's first handgun. The Kahr is a serious pistol in a serious caliber that comes clean, lubed and ready to go right out of the box. I can't say that for Kel-Tecs and I love em, I have 2 P32's and a P11 but unfortunately , Kahr's they aint.