Best way to check FP function, Rem 870

[Coronach]

OK. Time for a chilling tale.

The other day my First Shift counterpart was dispatched to put down a deer. He arrives on scene, gets out the Ninjagun from its home in the trunk of our cruiser (no in-car mount yet *sigh*), racks a round, mounts it, aims and *click*

***?

Racks a round...*click*

***???

Racks a round...*click*



Turns out the firing pin was broken. How long it has been that way, we do not know. The gun was last fired by me at ordnance a few months ago, when I took it in to have a kinked-up magazine spring addressed. It functioned fine, but AFAIK, it hasn't been fired since. So I could have been holding this shotty on quite a few people over that period of time, with a busted FP.

This just really isn't giving me a warm-fuzzy feeling, yah know?

Now, to make matters worse:

1. I work a busy precinct. I cannot make it out to ordnance at anything approaching a regular interval to testfire the shotgun. This would require an act of congress.

2. I can't rely on the slugs that work my car on 1st and 3rd (when its less busy) to do this, either.

3. (and this is the kicker) I'm not allowed to field strip the weapon. Ordnance gets all crankypants when they think about mere officers taking things apart, and so if we need anything done, we need to take it to them to do it. Given problem #1, that ain't happening. And I can't just do it on the sly- given the extended mag tubes and the mag tube clamp they put on it, I'd need tools that I don't have at the substation anyway.

So, Dave, others? Whats the best way to ensure proper function of a Rem 870 without field stripping it? I'm, obviously, concerned about that FP, but any other areas of function would be good to know as well. AFAIK, our usual load-and-clear procedures demonstrate that the weapon will cycle ok...so possibly the FP is the only part that needs addressed.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

do you have a locker at the substation?


if so, i'd suggest acquiring the proper tools to dissassemble your shotgun and stashing them at the substation.


you can do the pencil test on your shotgun to check for functioning of the firing pin.


stick a pencil down the bore, with the eraser resting on the firing pin hole, then pull the trigger, with the gun pointed in a safe direction, if the pencil flies about 2 feet in the air, then your firing pin isn't broke.

 

[Coronach]

Considered this. But I'm not so sure that it would be a good idea from a department-discipline point of view. And if anything ever goes wrong with that SG ever again, guess who ordnance will hang it on? "Yeah, I'm pretty sure that Coronach did that when he took the SG apart."

Mike

 

[Coronach]

*blink*

Did you edit your post? I missed the bit about the FP test with the pencil if you didn't.

I had thought of this, but...well, my only question is how do you position the pencil over the FP hole? Its pretty easy on a .45 ... 12 gauges have a bit more freebore around your standard #2 lead pencil...

Thanks,
Mike

 

[dfariswheel]

I had an old timer tell me to drop a coin (Dime, Penny?) into the chamber, close the bolt, point the barrel up and pull the trigger.

If the pin is intact, the coin will be heard to be struck and will ratle around the chamber.

 

[Coronach]

AH!!!!

Thats excellent!

Mike

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

well, if you don't tell anyone you took it apart...

can you use your own shotgun?
unless your wife is in the ordinance section, you can take that apart and clean it without repurcussion.

if i had that much trouble with people who are supposed to maintain my weapons, i'd probably get angry and tell them to go and do something unkind to themselves.

 

[sm]

dfarriswheel, beat me to the coin, trick.

on SxS or O/U , tape a pc of electricians tape , place over FP holes, close , pull trigger, bump recoil pad with palm of hand( to reset trigger) fire other bore. See the indentions or holes, mine makes a hole. Works with pump, semi, single shot.

Yes, the dept gun guru only part is scary.

"Lets be careful out there" - Hill Street Blues

 

[Coronach]

Its an organization with a paramilitary structure, Andrew. There are some things one can do, and some things one cannot.

And no, can't use personal weapons. That'd be a major no-no.

I'll try the coin suggestion today.

Mike

 

[El Tejon]

Cor, I do this: as others have said, drop a dime down the barrel and look for the pockmark in FDR's head. As for other parts, check the extractor and the mag spring too with my thumb. As well, I always checked the barrel before going out. In some departments officers were known to have put sandwhich wrappers or cigarette butts down the barrel. If sliding around in the trunk (geez, can't the union's lawyer take to your chief), gun can pick up dustbunnies/debris.

Good thing the chief reads THR and understand's El Tejon's advice on having multiple copies of the same weapon.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

take the situation to your union rep.

maybe they can get it sorted out.

 

[4 eyed six shooter]

Good ideas from all. When I was still a LEO, I would check the SG every time I went on duty. We would just pull the barrel off and hold a penny over the FP Hole, pull the trigger and look for the indention in the penny from the FP. What happens is that the FP breaks from people dry firing the SG. While the barrel was off, it was looked into for junk as described earlier. I found the FP broken twice and junk several times. Makes you wonder about the officers who do not take their firearms seriously.
The pencil trick and dime trick do work well and you are not taking the gun apart.
Be Safe, John K

 

[Coronach]

take the situation to your union rep.

maybe they can get it sorted out.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahah!

Thats the funniest thing I heard all day.

OK...I'm not a proud union man. The FOP does pretty well at contract negotiation, but is worthless for anything else. And this isn't a monetary compensation thing, so they don't care. They can't get the city to give a flying fig about the fact that our hand-held radios don't work over half of my precinct, due to the lack of a repeater. They're not gonna do a darned thing to address the SG situation.

Sorry...your suggestion makes perfect sense...but you've forgotten this is a government gig.

El T, the SG is in a case. Its protected from everything but dampness...but the powdercoat finish has developed a rather fetching patina, so I don't think it can get any worse. And yes, I comprehend the barrel obstruction bit. I once checked status of the SG (which I do every shift...all shells out, put all shells back in, make cruiser ready) and hey...what IS that sticking out of the barrel? A twig! WHAT?

Seems that my first shift counterpart had been going down a muddy embankment and used the shotty as a walking stick, barrel first. There was a 1" deep plug of mud in the end of the barrel. He wiped off the outside, didn;t bother to check the inside. I don't even wanna know what woulda happened if I'd dropped the hammer on that bad boy.

I did the dime trick today...worked like a charm. Thanks for the 411, all.

Mike

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

but you've forgotten this is a government gig.

no, i havent. My usual suggestion under these circumstances is to do grevious injury to those keeping you from taking care of your firearm.


I still say you should just dissassemble it and clean it every time you go on shift.

if you act like that's what you're supposed to be doing, then most people won't say anything.

 

[Coronach]

Alas, thats unworkable. Seriously. I see your point, and I agree with it, but it just ain't gonna happen.

Query: the dime trick...will the dime not bounce at all without a functional firing pin? I mean...I understand the concept. The FP strikes the dime and causes it to bounce...but if the hammer falls on a broken FP, could it still cause enough of a vibration in the bolt that the dime sounds like its been struck by the FP?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Coronach]

BTTT

Specifically, I need to know this:

Query: the dime trick...will the dime not bounce at all without a functional firing pin? I mean...I understand the concept. The FP strikes the dime and causes it to bounce...but if the hammer falls on a broken FP, could it still cause enough of a vibration in the bolt that the dime sounds like its been struck by the FP?

Just wanting to make sure the thread doesn't sink. Thanks!

Mike

 

[foghornl]

My firing pin test from about 25+ years back.....

Take a chunk of 5/8" [or 3/4", sanded/lathed to fit] wooden dowel rod and glue/tape dime to one end. Place "dime end" over the firing pin, and operate trigger. If you have cyliner bored shottys, dime should just pass through muzzle. Also gives you a quick way to test for plugged barrel. "Improved Cylinder" may or may not pass the dime, depending on exactly how tight the IC choke is cut.

 

[sm]

Mike, yes the dime can bounce with a broken firing pin...the 'vibration' , and 'sound' can mislead.

That is why an LEO friend used the electrical tape. He "felt" the dime was too light. He epoxied a few together , and felt more comfortable with weight to alleviate a false bounce.

He finally just had a tool made. Looks like a .410 shell except it has brass on both ends and painted orange. Like the pencil trick, you can hear it. It will exit his pg Ithica, and has on other duty 870's. One of the other officers raided his kids toy chest and found a hollow plastic rod(sealed on both ends) that does the same trick.

Their concern was being called on scene and grabbing a duty gun from another squad car, or even agency and just not knowing.

He also carried the brass tool to clear a bore in the event a stuck wad or twinkie wrapper ended up in one...some of his guys made him swear...

 

[El Tejon]

Mike, I look for the pockmark in FDR's haid.

 

[Coronach]

I like that idea...I'll get a tool made that I keep in my truck. Since we load up right next to our personal cars, it will be a simple matter to clear the gun, drop the tool in, check the FP, and reload.

Mike

 

[Ledbetter]

Pencil too small? Use a wooden dowel. Also leaves a "Pock."

 

[sm]

I Just Remembered !!

Its only been 20-25 yrs(?) when I made these. Gimmee a break.

Using a 45 ACP AZOOM snap cap and a 32 ga spent Fiocchi shotshell , I used a lathe to remove most of the case and bullet and decrease OA dia a smidge of the AZoom and replaced the base on the 32 ga with this. I then used styrofoam to fill shell and re-crimped.

I used 24 hr epoxy to keep Azoom and hull together and to make sure crimp stayed crimped.
BTW the 32 ga is a more Orange red color.

I then decided ( when LEO lost the first one) to make it easy on myself.

.41 cal Azoom and a 2 3/4 " .410 spent skeet load. Again, remove most of "case and bullet" from Azoom, turn on lathe to decrease dia a smidge , epoxy to base of .410 shell where base and primer has been removed , epoxy (24 hr) styrofoam .recrimp, epoxy, I used a Orange permanent marker.

These didn't hang up,most would exit the duty gun bbl length. Reason why I kept the weight down .Only problem was losing them...

Sorry I'd forgotten about this, back when I had some neat tools. Besides, I figured someone else would have come up with this by now and I'd be griping about not getting royalities on and Idea I had.

Works on 20 ga also.
.410 will hang up in a 32 ga and some 28 ga.

Royalites may me forwarded to me at....
Safety, security and piece of mind more important than $