Biggest dog from a real gun company?

Biggest dog from a company that should know better:

  • Colt AA2000

    Votes: 80 30.4%

  • Beretta Cougar

    Votes: 7 2.7%

  • SIG/Mauser M2

    Votes: 9 3.4%

  • HK VP70z

    Votes: 11 4.2%

  • S&W Sigma 380

    Votes: 102 38.8%

  • Browning BDM

    Votes: 4 1.5%

  • Colt Double Eagle

    Votes: 28 10.6%

  • SIG SigPro

    Votes: 9 3.4%

  • Colt SF-VI

    Votes: 3 1.1%

  • My nominee is written in below!

    Votes: 10 3.8%
  • Total voters
    263
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Actually the worst pistol I have ever fired was an HK Model 4. I lusted after one. Luckily for me a friend of mine got one first. Back in the early 70s. What a cool idea. .22lr, .25, 32 & 380 all from the same gun. (To be honest I never really understood the .25 bit)
Except that is was an honest to gosh Jammomatic.

Only pistol ever made that would consistantly jam in FOUR different calibers.
 
I voted for "Answer written in below" because I hate to see the Sigma .380 slammed like that. :p

See, it's like this;
S&W was also making a "compact" Sigma in 9mm. (I bought one. :mad: )
Of the two compact guns they came out with, (both intended to be the lowest priced S&W guns available), the .380 was the actually the better gun, and was made for a year after the 9mm was discontinued.

So, as bad as the .380 was, it actually had a big brother that was worse. :D

Here are my impressions of the compact Sigmas from another forum:

The mag release was a weird pinch-the-sides-of-the-bottom-of-the-mag deal, so forget a speed reload.
There was no last shot slide lock, and you needed a third hand to take one apart.
No sights, just a "gutter" across the top.
Accuracy on mine was pitiful even compared to my lame shooting skills.
 
You forgot the ENTIRE Ruger "P" series of pistols!!!!
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Your Mileage May Vary. They're big, and the ergonomics aren't that great, but mine's had well over a thousand troublefree rounds singe the last problem of any sort.

mtg.jpg
 
Bluesbear:

Hells Bells so will a brick.
Personally I want something that's also adequate at longer distances.
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So, are you deriding my ability as a shooter or the gun here? Do you know for sure that the gun isn't accurate at longer distances? Have you ever shot one? How many times? What distances?

The gun can shoot better than I can, and I don't expect to be trying to pick off BGs at 25 yards with it. It goes bang every time I pull the trigger and the grip is very comfortable in my hands. It is plenty accurate for me, and it fits my criteria for a good gun.

In fact, this is the first time I've heard someone criticize the Mauser M2 other than to say they didn't like the ergos. So what's the problem? Does the rotating locking barrel system just turn you off? Does that mean it's a dog? Explain.
 
Take a deep breath Demise, don't get your bloomers in a bunch.

I wasn't deriding your ability as a shooter or you gun.
My point was that just about anything will do the job at 21 feet.

I can knock out the bullseye with a brick at 7 yards. Completely out, with only one throw.
As Tamara almost said, a Lorcin will hit COM at 21 feet.

I can put 20 rounds from a High Standard Derringer into an area the size of the smiling face on your Alfred E. Neuman "What Me Worry" t-shirt at 7 yards. In fact I just did it last week at the range just to see how the old girl would shoot. (Relax I used a B27E not the t-shirt) But I wouldn't attempt to hit a person at 25 yards with it. If I did get lucky and hit them it might make them mad.


You might not expect to be picking BGs off at 25 yards but, like it or not, that's still how we judge the accuracy of a pistol.
 
You might not expect to be picking BGs off at 25 yards but, like it or not, that's still how we judge the accuracy of a pistol.
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That might be so, but I've never bothered to fire it at that distance. Do you know this gun isn't accurate at 25 yards? Does Tamara? I don't, but then again, I shoot off-handed at about 7 or 15 yards usually, because it's practical. I don't see a lot of value in benchrest shooting a handgun.

What I'm trying to understand here is how a gun that is extremely reliable and, as far as I can tell, accurate, gets classified as a "dog". Usually a bad design leads to an unreliable or wildly inaccurate gun, but that isn't the case here. Is it assumed that the M2 is a bad design because a few crappy guns shared a similar mechanism, or is there some actual proof that it's got a problem?

Take a deep breath Demise, don't get your bloomers in a bunch.
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I'm not upset, I'm trying to figure out the criteria of a "dog" gun here. I apologize if I came off that way.
 
I've never heard of pistol benchrest shooting, but bullseye match shooting is done one-handed at 25 and 50 yards.
 
I don't understand the inclusion of the SIGpro on this list.
Mine has been everything you'd need in a self-defense pistol.
Mine shoots three calibers, and has never jammed with any of them.
Very accurate, too.
Just because they weren't stellar in the sales department doesn't mean that they were bad pistols.
My 2340 is twice the gun my 229 was, no lie.
My 229 was horribly innacurate, and cost more, too.
 
Demise,

I'm not upset, I'm trying to figure out the criteria of a "dog" gun here.
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Inaccurate (when compared with many comparable handguns), mediocre trigger, bizarre manual safety, and dogged by rumours of fragility and short lifespans (rumour has it that this is why SIG marketed them under the Mauser name), led to a sales flop.
 
Sorry had to bring this back. I had to vote Sigma .380. It's the only handgun I've ever just laughed at from holding/seeing it the very first time.

Do have to defend the Vp70z. May be odd looking and not have the best trigger by a long shot but it did introduce polymer to the world of firearms. Besides, judgeing by current prices for this model, must still have some desireability.
 
I voted for the AA2000, but a close second would be the Wesson Arms 738P! The 738P was a 2" Stainless snubbie in .38 Spl but the factory Hand spring turned out to be too weak for rapid DA use. Rapid DA use was near impossible due to over flexing of the Hand spring. After a few tries the spring would bend beyond repair. :cuss: The Wesson Arms factory never corrected this problem, which was a shame, since the 738P was a solid weapon otherwise and never missed a beat in SA mode! The Old Wesson Arms company folded about a year after the 738P was introduced causing parts to be scarce or non-existant, especially Hand springs for the 738P. :(


:evil:
 
I am not in the least ashamed of the Beretta 8045 Cougar I owned for three years. It was less attractive than many, but no less accurate or reliable than any other .45ACP pistol I have owned.

Looks like it is/was the testbed for the new Beretta PX4.

By most accounts, the 9000 is the dog Beretta.

I voted for the Colt AA 2000, primarily because I remember all of the hype surrounding its launch. That Colt was the Edsel of automatic pistols save for the fact that the Edsel actually worked.
 
I'm wondering how my SP2340 , with its better trigger and >/= accuracy to my 220 , 225 and 226 is mediocre ? Sure , SIG snobs didn't like that they made a plastic pistol and lowered the cost of entry into the World of SIG , but it's a very , very good gun . I'm not exactly sure what they could have done with it other than make it in alloy to please the people who don't like it , functionally it's great .

I own one , but would have to say that the Beretta 9000S is somewhat of a woofer . Mine works great but they could've done more work on the ergonomics of it than just building something that looks cool : the grip is too large fore:aft and the decocker's added width makes it uncomfortable to CCW . I'm wearing mine today : OWB though !
 
Mike Irwin wrote:
Anything ever made by AMT or it's affiliated companies. I don't think it would be possible to pay more money for a worse gun.
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Tamara wrote:
I specified "from a real gun company."
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Yep, the AMTs are universally despised by all the 'smiths I have met.

I kinda like my Backup in .45ACP. I carried it for years & it fed most HP ammo (though I ended up stoking it with hardball).

To my everlasting shame, I will admit I paid $400 for one of the first .45ACP Backups made. :uhoh:

Mine functions fine, though it has been relegated to 3rd-line service.

Oh, it does have the ability to reliably cycle CCI ratshot rounds. Snakes beware!
 
When the renowned Tamara calls a pistole a dog, it must be so. I have never owned any of the above ;) so cannot offer any observations. I have however owned a Walther PPK and will nominate that as the POS of the century.

So good looking and so useless. So, my vote is My Nominee is Written in Below. :uhoh:
 
But I LIKE the vP70Z! Never can find one anymore....yes I did and still do want one of those big tanks....
I also vote AMT, specifically the BackUp 45...what a pile. My LT has one she can't find another grip panel for, can't shoot it, and can't get rid of it....ick.
 
Gonna have to disagree with you Tamara....

I personally think the Sig Pro is a fine weapon. The trigger needs a couple of thousand pull to smooth out, but when it does...it's nice.

Secondly, my 2340's, both of them, were every bit as accurate as my 229's, both of them. I spen a LOT of time A/B comparing them.

Got rid of the Sig Pro because I believe the Sig 250 will find it's way to our shores soon.
 
A few write-in candiates:

1) Ruger Mark III pistol. The new magazine release is great, but the loaded chamber indicator that might be able to fire a chambered round and the magazine safety are two huge mistakes.

2) FN FiveSeveN. First, FN designed a weapons system around a highly specialized application, found sales were less than expected, and retooled the handgun part of the system to sell to individuals. Sales start to rise, but the round gets bad press due to its penetrating ability, the raison d'etre for the weapons system. Now it appears FN has decided to stop sales of the hollowpoint ammo for the FiveSeveN to non-LEO's. If one is not a handloader, the FiveSeveN may be a fancy polymer coated brick.
 
Its all been said...but I'll say it again- Sigma. Within a year it fell apart in my hand. They shoulda used paperclips...it would have been stronger. :cuss:
 
Dogs

Smith & Wesson revolvers with even numbers as the last digit in their serial number. Ridiculously poor fitting with excessive end play and cylinder gap. In more recent times they have improved on this by making all their revolvers too ugly to bear looking at.
 
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