Bird Flu Deaths Reported

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silverlance

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051114...rmTvyIi;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

An Indonesian woman, 20yro, has died yesterday from bird flu. Other deaths have occured in China, Vietnam, and possibly other countries as well. We may well be seeing the forming of a real-life zombie crisis in which the sick, dying, and hysterical turn cities into looting and mob scenarios.

Without this turning into a "SHTF: what guns do you plan to carry" thread, I'd like us to ask ourselves what constructive things we can do when such a scenario BEGINS to happen. In other words, the flu is confirmed to be within our immediate vicinity: what can we do as members of the elite prepared (which I believe us to be) to protect ourselves and our neighborhoods?

q: How can we, or should we, pull together our neighbors to consolidate resources?

q: What medical procedures must become routine?

q: What medical / preventative training will be the most necessary?

q: How can, or should, neighborhood borders be secured? This applies more to those who live in cities.

q: When does the risk become so great that jobs / homes should be abandoned in favor of evacuation?

q: Most importantly, what is the feasibility of THR becoming an interconnected network that might support other safety networks (ie., the red cross, volunteers like the guy who drove his 10-ton truck into katrina, the army when the finally get out there)? Before the total breakdown of communications (which I don't forsee happening but it is a possibility), THR members in adjacent areas could take down map coordinates so that in the event of an evacuation refugee groups could have a waypoint in mind. Hopefully, THR members won't be met with the wrong ends of THR rifles.

....

Personally, I have purchased 500 3M 99% surgical masks and enough mid-range medical supplies to be at least moderately equipped. Of course, we have food, water, and plenty of ammo as well. If my neighborhood sees the need for a guarded perimeter, THR members who had contacted me prior to comm breakdown would be one of the few people that I would choose to let in. This could possibly be assisted by use of codewords or pass dialogue.

I'm also having an order put in for patches so that my team can have identifying marks. BTW, I'm patterning my fire team / response team structure after that of the Korean shop-owner's associations here in Los Angeles, who responded admirably during the LA 1992 riots.
 
I think there are other threats to worry about:

This is from Stratfor:

Special Report: The Bird Flu and You
Stratfor subscribers have been sending us a steady river of requests for our opinion on the bird flu situation. Although we are not medical experts, among our sources are those who are. And here is what we have been able to conclude based on their input and our broader analysis of the bird flu threat:

Calm down.

Now let us qualify that: Since December 2003, the H5N1 bird flu virus -- which has caused all the ruckus -- has been responsible for the documented infection of 121 people, 91 one of whom caught the virus in Vietnam. In all cases where information on the chain of infection has been confirmed, the virus was transmitted either by repeated close contact with fowl or via the ingestion of insufficiently cooked chicken products. In not a single case has human-to-human communicability been confirmed. So long as that remains the case, there is no bird flu threat to the human population of places such as Vietnam at large, much less the United States.



The Politics of Genetics

An uncomfortable but undeniable fact is that there are a great many people and institutions in this world that have a vested interest in feeding the bird flu scare. Much like the "Y2K" bug that commanded public attention in 1999, bird flu is all you hear about. Comparisons to the 1918 Spanish influenza have produced death toll projections in excess of 360 million, evoking images of chaos in the streets.

One does not qualify for funding -- whether for academic research, medical development or contingency studies -- by postulating about best-case scenarios. The strategy is to show up front how bad things could get, and to scare your targeted benefactors into having you study the problem and manufacture solutions.

This hardly means that these people are evil, greedy or irresponsible (although, in the case of Y2K or when a health threat shuts down agricultural trade for years, one really tends to wonder). It simply means that fear is an effective way to spark interest and action.

Current medical technology lacks the ability to cure -- or even reliably vaccinate against -- highly mutable viral infections; the best available medicines can only treat symptoms -- like Roche's Tamiflu, which is becoming as scarce as the oftentimes legendary red mercury -- or slow a virus' reproduction rate. Is more research needed? Certainly. But are we on the brink of a cataclysmic outbreak? Certainly not.

A bird flu pandemic among the human population is broadly in the same category as a meteor strike. Of course it will happen sooner or later -- and when it does, watch out! But there is no -- absolutely no -- particular reason to fear a global flu pandemic this flu season.

This does not mean the laws of nature have changed since 1918; it simply means there is no way to predict when an animal virus will break into the human population in any particular year -- or even if it will at all. Yes, H5N1 does show a propensity to mutate; and, yes, sooner or later another domesticated animal disease will cross over into the human population (most common human diseases have such origins). But there is no scientifically plausible reason to expect such a crossover to be imminent.

But if you are trying to find something to worry about, you should at least worry about the right thing.

A virus can mutate in any host, and pound for pound, the mutations that are of most interest to humanity are obviously those that occur within a human host. That means that each person who catches H5N1 due to a close encounter of the bird kind in effect becomes a sort of laboratory that could foster a mutation and that could have characteristics that would allow H5N1 to be communicable to other humans. Without such a specific mutation, bird flu is a problem for turkeys, but not for the non-turkey farmers among us.

But we are talking about a grand total of 115 people catching the bug over the course of the past three years. That does not exactly produce great odds for a virus -- no matter how genetically mutable -- to evolve successfully into a human-communicable strain. And bear in mind that the first-ever human case of H5N1 was not in 2003 but in 1997. There is not anything fundamentally new in this year's bird flu scare.

A more likely vector, therefore, would be for H5N1 to leap into a species of animal that bears similarities to human immunology yet lives in quarters close enough to encourage viral spread -- and lacks the capacity to complete detailed questionnaires about family health history.

The most likely candidate is the pig. On many farms, birds and pigs regularly intermingle, allowing for cross-infection, and similar pig-human biology means that pigs serving in the role as mutation incubator are statistically more likely than the odd Vietnamese raw-chicken eater to generate a pandemic virus.

And once the virus mutates into a form that is pig-pig transferable, a human pandemic is only one short mutation away. Put another way, a bird flu pandemic among birds is manageable. A bird flu pandemic among pigs is not, and is nearly guaranteed to become a human pandemic.

Pandemics: Past and Future

What precisely is a pandemic? The short version is that it is an epidemic that is everywhere. Epidemics affect large numbers of people in a relatively contained region. Pandemics are in effect the same, but without the geographic limitations. In 1854 a cholera epidemic struck London. The European settling of the Americas brought disease pandemics to the Native Americans that nearly eliminated them as an ethnic classification.

In 1918 the influenza outbreak spread in two waves. The first hit in March, and was only marginally more dangerous than the flu outbreaks of the previous six years. But in the trenches of war-torn France, the virus mutated into a new, more virulent strain that swept back across the world, ultimately killing anywhere from 20 million to 100 million people. Some one in four Americans became infected -- nearly all in one horrid month in October, and some 550,000 -- about 0.5 percent of the total population -- succumbed. Playing that figure forward to today's population, theoretically 1.6 million Americans would die. Suddenly the fear makes a bit more sense, right?


Wrong.

There are four major differences between the 1918 scenario and any new flu pandemic development:

# First -- and this one could actually make the death toll higher -- is the virus itself.

No one knows how lethal H5N1 (or any animal pathogen) would be if it adapted to human hosts. Not knowing that makes it impossible to reliably predict the as-yet-unmutated virus' mortality rate.

At this point, the mortality rate among infected humans is running right at about 50 percent, but that hardly means that is what it would look like if the virus became human-to-human communicable. Remember, the virus needs to mutate before it is a threat to humanity -- there is no reason to expect it to mutate just once. Also, in general, the more communicable a disease becomes the lower its mortality rate tends to be. A virus -- like all life forms -- has a vested interest in not wiping out its host population.

One of the features that made the 1918 panic so unnerving is the "W" nature of the mortality curve. For reasons unknown, the virus proved more effective than most at killing people in the prime of their lives -- those in the 15- to 44-year-old age brackets. While there is no reason to expect the next pandemic virus to not have such a feature, similarly there is no reason to expect the next pandemic virus to share that feature.

# Second, 1918 was not exactly a "typical" year.

World War I, while coming to a close, was still raging. The war was unique in that it was fought largely in trenches, among the least sanitary of human habitats. Soldiers not only faced degrading health from their "quarters" in wartime, but even when they were not fighting at the front they were living in barracks. Such conditions ensured that they were: a) not in the best of health, and b) constantly exposed to whatever airborne diseases afflicted the rest of their unit.

As such, the military circumstances and style of the war ensured that soldiers were not only extraordinarily susceptible to catching the flu, but also extraordinarily susceptible to dying of it. Over half of U.S. war dead in World War I -- some 65,000 men -- were the result not of combat but of the flu pandemic.

And it should be no surprise that in 1918, circulation of military personnel was the leading vector for infecting civilian populations the world over. Nevertheless, while the United States is obviously involved in a war in 2005, it is not involved in anything close to trench warfare, and the total percentage of the U.S. population involved in Iraq and Afghanistan -- 0.005 percent -- is middling compared to the 2.0 percent involvement in World War I.

# Third, health and nutrition levels have radically changed in the past 87 years. Though fears of obesity and insufficient school lunch nutrition are all the rage in the media, no one would seriously postulate that overall American health today is in worse shape than it was in 1918. The healthier a person is going into a sickness, the better his or her chances are of emerging from it. Sometimes it really is just that simple.

Indeed, a huge consideration in any modern-day pandemic is availability of and access to medical care. Poorer people tend to live in closer quarters and are more likely to have occupations (military, services, construction, etc.) in which they regularly encounter large numbers of people. According to a 1931 study of the 1918 flu pandemic by the U.S. Public Health Service, the poor were about 20 percent to 30 percent more likely to contract the flu, and overall mortality rates of the "well-to-do" were less than half that of the "poor" and "very poor."

# But the fourth factor, which will pull some of the strength out of any new pandemic, is even more basic than starting health: antibiotics. The 1918 pandemic virus was similar to the more standard influenza virus in that the majority of those who perished died not from the primary attack of the flu but from secondary infections -- typically bacteria or fungal -- that triggered pneumonia. While antibiotics are hardly a silver bullet and they are useless against viruses, they raise the simple possibility of treatment for bacterial or fungal illnesses. Penicillin -- the first commercialized antibiotic -- was not discovered until 1929, 11 years too late to help when panic gripped the world in 1918.

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Silverlance,

Double up - no, triple up the tinfoil and take your meds. You'll feel fine in 24 hours.
 
Despite being along the migratory path of wild birds, --40% to 70% of whom are positive carriers of H5N1, the Philippines has yet to be affected. We are almost the last man standing in the region, and we have had trouble producing/exporting enough poultry to meet regional demand for it.

This, despite many of our duck and chicken farms being adjacent to wetlands frequented by migratory birds.

Why is it that domesticated birds fall ill to H5N1 so readily, while wild fowl tolerate it? Why is it that Philippine poultry seem able to dodge infection? I suspect that a healthy bird with a healthy amount of space around it and a healthy diet has a better chance of fighting off a potential infection.

Much of the same can apply to humans.
Eat right, get plenty of fresh air and exercise, sleep right and keep clean.
Cook your poultry thoroughly.
 
tinfoil hat not working properly

either that I or I suppose I'm one of those folks that get all stirred up and antsy when the possibility of TEOTWAKI comes around.

In my neighborhood quite a few folks were very dissapointed when Y2k fizzled on us. As a matter of fact, we never did hear from Jorge again, for all we know he's still out in the Mojave living off of lizards and squeezed out scrub brush water...

but seriously, though, eventually SOME kind of viral outbreak is going to happen. 3 occurred in the last century alone. so shouldn't we plan for that catalclysmic 1% rather than feel secure in the greater 99%?
 
When in doubt in extreme situations, this advise always seemed reasonable: lay down a supressing fire and fall back by squads. :rolleyes:
 
Don't forget the newest developements!

There are reports, from scientists and medical labs, coming out of Asia right now that may spell doom for the avian flu and relief for us. Kimshe and saurkraut seem to have some medicinal properties when dealing with influenza. In the last test, 11 of 13 chickens showed improvement when fed kimshe and/or saurkraut. This was with H5-N1 infected birds, similar results have been seen with other strains of influenza. I'll re-post when I find the original story again so nobody has to click through a dozen links to get it.
 
Thanks Jeff!

silverlance, since you're a public school teacher you're doomed anyway unless the government suspends school and puts quarantine into effect. You can't teach in a mask, wear gloves or sanitize the surfaces you touch while at school (these are the things that you'd need to do to reduce the potential for catching a nasty virus on any sort).

Look at the way the Asian countries handled SARS. People wore masks, washed hands frequently, avoided public places. The governments we ready to use large scale quarantine and did use small scale quarantine to good effect.

same same for the mythical killer bird flue pandemic
 
1911 guy said:
There are reports, from scientists and medical labs, coming out of Asia right now that may spell doom for the avian flu and relief for us. Kimshe and saurkraut seem to have some medicinal properties when dealing with influenza. In the last test, 11 of 13 chickens showed improvement when fed kimshe and/or saurkraut. This was with H5-N1 infected birds, similar results have been seen with other strains of influenza. I'll re-post when I find the original story again so nobody has to click through a dozen links to get it.
Although I can deal with the 'kraut, I'd rather suffer the flu than eat kimshe. *shudders*
Biker
 
Here is one of the links on sauerkraut and bird flu. As reported, they fed kimchi to 13 chickens infected with the flu and a week later 11 of them recovered. THIS IS GREAT NEWS - IF YOU'RE A CHICKEN. It's not reported in the article, but this news could do great things for the sales of Beano. I 'm sure someone is studying if it reduces flatulence in chickens.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/m...S&grid=P8&xml=/health/2005/11/15/nsauer13.xml

Sauerkraut could fight bird flu, say scientists
(Filed: 15/11/2005)

Sauerkraut, the dish adored in Germany but much maligned in Britain, could prove to be a secret weapon against the threat of bird flu, experts revealed yesterday.

Scientists believe that the traditional recipe, which is made from chopped cabbage that is fermented for at least a month, contains a bacteria that may combat the potentially fatal disease.

Their findings follow a study in which kimchi - a spicy cabbage dish popular in South Korea and similar to sauerkraut - was fed to 13 chickens infected with bird flu. Just one week later, 11 of the birds showed signs of recovery from the virus.

"The feed has been shown to help improve the fight against bird flu or other types of flu viruses," said Prof Kang Sa-ouk, who led the research at Seoul National University, yesterday.

Prof Kang's team claims that lactobacillus, the lactic acid bacteria created during the fermenting process, is the active ingredient that could combat bird flu.

Health experts have already agreed that there may be some truth to kimchi's curative properties, prompting an increase in the consumption of the dish in South Korea.

Sales of sauerkraut in the United States have also soared as a result of the research, and now Britain is starting to catch on. Last night, importers of the dish to Britain said that sales were rising and they were increasing stocks in the expectation that demand could escalate.

Geoff Hale, the commercial manager for Euro Food Brands, said: "Sales are very buoyant at the moment. We bring in about half-a-million jars of sauerkraut to Britain from Germany every year and that number is definitely going up."

Sales of sauerkraut were up 20 per cent on this time last year at Sainsbury's, according to a spokesman for the supermarket.

Whether or not sauerkraut does cure bird flu, the dish is said to have a number of other health benefits, among them cancer-fighting and detoxifying properties.

It is also a rich source of vitamins.

One serving, which contains only 32 calories and has four grams of fibre, provides 102 per cent of the recommended daily intake of vitamin K, 12 per cent of iron and 35 per cent of vitamin C.

Prof Richard Mithen, from the Institute of Food Research, in Norwich, said: "Eating kimchi or sauerkraut may be good for your health and help fight off infections.

"I wouldn't recommend anyone rushing out to stock up on sauerkraut specifically to fight off bird flu, but it may help your immune system."

A further study on sauerkraut, carried out recently by Polish and American scientists, concluded that the meal might be the reason for the lower breast cancer rate observed among Polish immigrants in America.
Home-made sauerkraut recipe
 
Hmmm, another reason to eat kimchee!

Do they say which type of kimchee works best? (I like the cabage/garlic/pepper, but my wife likes the cucumber kind better:evil: )
 
"Disappointed" that Y2K "fizzled"?? Definitely time to triple up on the tin foil.

My guess is you have an exponentially greater chance of being killed by the normal flu than the bird flu. 64 deaths, worldwide, in the last 3 years. Yeah, I'm panicked. Really, I am. :D
 
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