black bears - this is why I still have my .44 magnum

[Cee Zee]

http://www.dailyindependent.com/new...cle_8ac233c6-04eb-11e5-acb1-d358d7e44417.html

Bears are taking over eastern KY where my farm is not to mention SE Ohio (right across the river) where my house is. It gets worse every year or better depending on your POV. I do feel naked without some protection in the woods now. Places where I grew up used to only have bobcats and the occasional mountain lion to worry about. It was very rare to hear the latter and I never saw anything but tracks. I have seen bobcats and trust me they are worth worrying about. I never really worry about any of them I suppose. I just know what to do and it isn't included in that news report. They left out a key step in dealing with a black bear. They said stand up and make noise and never run. What they don't say is if the bear comes your way despite the noise and it has obvious intentions of hurting you - shoot it. It's not like they're endangered.

I've had more than one encounter with those smelly critters. I've seen them not back down (like the time I disturbed one that had discovered my neighbors grain barrel for his hogs) and I've had them shadow me on a trail where I was about to reach a pinch point. I could smell that one plain as day even though I couldn't see the thing behind the mountain laurel. He was expecting me to have a picnic basket. Idiots had been feeding the bears there as I found out later. That bear had bad intentions for sure and I didn't have my gun with me since it was a state park. Never again. I'll just stay out of the parks if it means not carrying a gun in the woods.

Then there was the fan of my grilling habits. That one liked to hide behind the bushes and make threatening noises every time I cooked out on the grill (which was practically every day). It was gum smacking and teeth clacking but it never showed itself when I was around. I guess it senses I wasn't afraid which was made possible by a 870 and Brenneke Black Magic 12 ga. slugs.

All you guys in the Hillbilly Nation should pay attention these days and keep a firearm handy.

 

[Cee Zee]

What the heck does this post have to do with hunting??? It's a warning to people who live where I live that the bears are coming.

 

[taliv]

http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pa...humans/119-how-dangerous-are-black-bears.html

 

[thewillweeks]

Interesting read taliv, thanks for sharing. I think the most important thing is not to consider what a bear normally does but what it could do . When we consider people, many of us choose to carry a weapon of some sort not because we expect to be attacked any second of any day (although it could happen). We prepare and plan for things that likely will never happen when it comes to people, why not with bears as well? Just my two cents.

 

[Cee Zee]

I would agree with pretty much everything in that article. I certainly didn't mean to imply we should shoot bears on sight. I only meant that we should be aware and being protected just in case is a good idea. I've had many encounters with bears and I rarely feel threatened. Only those two times come to mind and one was totally due to people feeding bears and the other due to me scaring a bear out of a very good food supply. Yes they threaten me. I just laugh on go on but I do keep a 12 ga. handy just in case.

I don't want to start some war on bears. I like having them around. My wife thinks I'm crazy of course but I have convinced her that she has nothing to worry about despite bears coming into my yard and eating my dogs food 15 feet from my house. They did that for months before I figured out why the dog wasn't gaining weight despite the fact I fed him a lot. I just moved the feeding area. My dog didn't even bark at them when they came to eat his foot but he did run two off that were in the process of killing one of our cats. It was a really nice cat at that. A Maine Coon that would have been huge if it had the chance to grow up. But it was also slow compared to most cats. I've seen squirrels with one bite taken out of them by a bear. They are very good hunters so slow cats make really good targets.

Again I'm not trying to start a bear Amageddon here. I'm just pointing out that we should be aware and like all good gun nuts I think it's a good idea to be ready in the rare case that a bear might get offensive. Attacks are up substantially but they are still rare. They have been marking my buildings and scratching my yard for almost a decade now. But their numbers are growing fast and that means more bears getting more aggressive because the food isn't going to go around for that growing bear population.

We prepare and plan for things that likely will never happen when it comes to people, why not with bears as well?

That's my thinking too. I don't think every human I meet is going to try to kill me but I carry a gun for that one crazy jerk that might want to try.

 

[jmr40]

My chances of being killed by a domestic dog, bees, or lightning are vastly greater. My chances of being murdered are 60,000 times greater. One of the safest places a person can be is in the woods.

True, but misleading. The vast majority of people in the USA don't live within several hundred miles of black bear. It's like saying you're more likely to be struck by lightning in Kansas than attacked by a shark there.

Black bear range in red.



Most of the areas where black bear live are sparsely populated by humans. But in certain areas you get a dense bear population in the same areas where lots of humans live or interact. In those areas the odds of a bear encounter are much greater than being struck by lightning.

Black bears have killed 61 people across North America since 1900.

I don't know how accurate that is, but 2 have been killed within 2 hours drive of my home since 2000. There have been about 8-10 injuries, and dozens of close encounters. And that is just in the North GA, East TN and Western NC areas.

My chances of being murdered are 60,000 times greater.

Absolutely true. That determines my carry choices. Bears that cause trouble are almost always juveniles that have been run off by mom and are struggling to make it on their own. They are generally smaller than a typical adult male. Since I'm more likely to need protection from 2 legged predators (even in the woods) than 4 I choose my firearm with that thought in mind. I wouldn't go with a 9mm, but a 40 S&W loaded with heavier bullets, 10mm, or 357 mag with heavier bullets should be fine and serve dual roles. Nothing wrong with going bigger if it makes you comfortable, I just don't see the need. In reality bear spray is probably a better choice.

I hike, hunt and camp in areas quite often with the densest bear populations in the country. SMNP and areas within 100 miles of it's borders. I see bears up close quite often and have never needed a firearm except when hunting. I've killed one and helped bring a few others out of the woods. They ain't bulletproof.

Most of the link provides very good advice on dealing with bear. But the one thing I cannot control is what others who came before me did. If someone else that came down the trail a few hours or even days before me and feeds a bear, then that bear will associate humans with free food and often become aggressive to the next guy. Bears in true wilderness settings don't get close enough to humans for this to be a problem.

Truthfully, it's not something I worry about much, but I do believe in being prepared for the worse case scenario. I don't worry about having a flat time constantly either, but I keep my spare inflated just in case.

 

[Cee Zee]

Sorry but that map is hopelessly out of date. It shows no bears in Ohio at all. That's a joke. I know better. I have lots of them in my yard. They have been photographed for the newspaper. They've been killed on highways. There are LOTS of bears in Ohio. Here's a gubmit web page that talks about the upsurge in bears in the state. And that newspaper article I linked to is printed a .223 shot from Ohio.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/detailfull/wayne/alerts-notices/?cid=stelprdb5063228&width=full

BTW they do say bears are listed as endangered in Ohio. But that's like brown bears still being listed as threatened around Yellowstone. There are far more bears there than the number that was agreed would be the limit for them to remain on the threatened list. There's a den not more than 2 miles from my house where they found 7-8 bears hibernating and that was before the population growth. It was a rare find as they thought black bears didn't hibernate in groups but apparently they had been coming to that same cave for a long time.

I also live within 2 miles of the national forest mention on the Forest Service website linked above. But the biggest source of bears in the area came from a state park in Kentucky not more than a mile from my farm. They released 500 bears there one summer. I saw my first bears in the area that year not to mention countless tracks and signs. That's been about 12 years ago and the bear population has grown steadily since even though most of those 500 bears left the area for the mountains. Enough of them stayed to make the population explode just like the deer population did. At first I only saw them in very remote areas generally when I was driving my 4WD Dodge Raider in the wildest areas. That thing would go anywhere. But after a few years I started seeing lots more signs around the house. There had always been a few - tracks, bear fur on a barbed wire fence, scratchings, trees marked - but all of a sudden there were lots of them. I had a bed area on my hill where at least 5 were bedding down every night. My idjit neighbor put out corn to attract deer. The only thing he brought in was bears. I also saw a huge bed area on the farm. There must have been 10 bedding down there. I saw bears there too. I had one in my sights from about 250 yards and I was aiming with a 30.06 Savage 110 but I knew better. Very unlikely I would have been caught but that didn't matter. It wasn't the right thing to do. But I could have had a bear skin rug right now if I wanted.

The thing is they introduced those bears to cut down on the deer population and it has worked very well. Bears rarely go after an adult deer but they are great at sniffing out fawns who, as I'm sure you know, simply sit still and hope predators don't notice them. Bears have great noses and they find those fawns like crazy. That has cut way down on the deer population in the area.

I think all of us are on the same page as to how we should deal with the black bears. I posted this because it was a new article with new information. And too many people think there are no bears around. They should be aware of the possibility whether they are armed or not. There are things to do and things not to do - like camp with a can of beanie weenies on a rock beside a fire. I had a bear come in for a snack one night in the mountains of Virginia way out in the middle of nowhere in the Mt. Rogers area. It wasn't more than 3 feet from my tent and I didn't have a gun. That's the kind of thing a person should be aware of. I paid more attention to where I left my half eaten goodies after that.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

No offense but as a 20 year Alaska resident I got a chuckle out of this thread. You feel threatened by bears in OHIO?

 

[Cee Zee]

Chuckle all you want. No one said they were "threatened by bears". I did say it was a good idea to exercise caution. But if you think a black bear won't hurt you I bet to differ.

Here's one example that is pretty far from my home and my farm but it's on a trail I've hiked. That trail was very similar to the one the bear tried to corner me on down in Virginia in Breaks Interstate Park.

http://www.kentucky.com/2010/06/29/1327571/gorge-closes-after-bear-attack.html

There have been two fatal black bear attacks in the Cherokee / Smokey Mtn. areas of Tenn. in the not too distant past. It does happen and apparently more often than some people, who have no frame of reference, seem to think. Be sure to read the last line in this story.

http://www.southeasternoutdoors.com/wildlife/mammals/cherokee-fatal-bear-attack.html

There have been other attacks as well:

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/gosmokies/black-bear-attacks-boy-in-smokies-father-also

Again I KNOW black bear attacks are rare. But I have been in the woods a lot in my life and I know a threat when I see one. And I've been threatened many times. Maybe that's no big deal to you but it's enough reason for me to carry a gun big enough for black bears. That was the whole reason for this thread. But go ahead and laugh at people if it makes you feel better.

Again the bear population is expanding rapidly. If you (and you seem to be a good example of someone who doesn't get it) think it will never happen think again. Attacks have been increasing as the bear population grows and it will only get worse. I'm just one person but I have been threatened more than once. Maybe I spend more time in the wilds than most. But there are plenty of people who are out there in the woods just like me. Do your really think being prepared for a bear that is threatening you every time you cook out is laughable? I bet you use black bears as butlers in the great white north.

BTW have you ever been to Ohio or WV or eastern KY? If you think it looks like Anchorage you're sadly mistaken. Anchorage is a city. I live in the country. I've been to places that were a 4 day hike to get out of. I didn't hike there but I would have hiked out if my equipment broke down. I did it alone BTW. Here's an example of what you might find in the area. There are places that are the same distance from houses near where I live but down in WV the mountains are straight up and straight down for miles and miles. I can point you to videos to give you an idea.

37.691203, -81.914681

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yYN897eyD2Y#t=92

 

[jim in Anchorage]

Yeah Anchorage is a city. No bears here


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[Patocazador]

" But the biggest source of bears in the area came from a state park in Kentucky not more than a mile from my farm. They released 500 bears there one summer. I saw my first bears in the area that year not to mention countless tracks and signs."

Cee Zee, do you have anything in print to back this up? Releasing 500 bears in a state park seems a bit far-fetched.

 

[1911 guy]

A bear was hit on the road near my house two years ago. A bear pulled the bird feeder (suet) from the pole at the end of my grandmother back deck. Last year a kid shinnied up a tree during deer season, was found very shaken and lots of bear tracks at the base of the tree.

Don't take black bears lightly. While it is true that they seldom attack people, the fatality rate per attack is higher than brown bears.

 

[ElevenBravo]

I've seen multiple threads here and on other sites saying that the right pill for black bear is a magnum 12ga slug. Just struck me as using a howitzer to kill a housefly, black bear are pretty thin skinned and not particularly heavy boned.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

^^^ Point is you want the bear down NOW, not 5 minutes from now. ADF&G shoots several nuisance bears a year in Anchorage and they use Rem 870's.

 

[1911 guy]

Using a "howitzer to kill a housefly" is entirely appropriate when that housefly is stronger, faster and meaner than you.

A .22 magnum is enough to kill most of the medium sized cats. I don't see anyone advising mountain lions are best hunted with a rimfire.

 

[Cee Zee]

Cee Zee, do you have anything in print to back this up? Releasing 500 bears in a state park seems a bit far-fetched.

I don't care if you believe it or not. I know it's true. They didn't publicize it because they didn't want people to know about it. They knew there would be a strong backlash from farmers who didn't want dead calves feeding bears. But again my farm is less than a mile from that park. The fact I saw my first bears in the area that year along with tracks all over the area should be enough proof. It is for me. Just read the story I linked to. That's plenty of evidence there are plenty of bears. I know people in the area. It's hard to keep things like that secret from the grapevine network. That's a part of EK culture going back a couple of centuries. I can point you to books that talk about it. It exists and I still have a connection or two.

Here's another story that you might find interesting. It says a lot of the things I've already said here:

http://www.kentucky.com/2009/06/15/830652_bears-are-no-longer-rare-in-kentucky.html?rh=1

And no I didn't read that story before I started this thread. Notice what it says about conflicts increasing and bears eating from pet food bowls. I've had all that and more. Also notice the date on that article. It's gotten much worse in the last 6 years. Also I did find this information on a bear reintroduction program in another part of Kentucky. Trust me. It is happening. They don't talk about it because they know a lot of people will be against it.

http://uknowledge.uky.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1000&context=forestry_etds

Kentucky has had reintroduction programs for deer, turkey, coyote, bobcats and who knows what all. These are the ones that are commonly known. And another reintroduction program was done for black bears and one of the areas they concentrated on was Greenbo Lake. It's surrounded by lots of wild country. It's a big park on it's own. It's on the foothills of the mountains and was a perfect spot for their program. Bears have been sighted in central Kentucky now which is far more urban. Greenbo is in a very rural county. And when I see bear bedding down on my farm in large numbers they almost certainly originated at Greenbo exactly the same way deer first showed up in the area not to mention coyotes and wild turkeys.

BTW Jim that photo could have been taken anywhere.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

I took it from my front yard. The dumpster is right next door to my property. In Anchorage. As You say believe it or not.

 

[WestKentucky]

Anybody have a map showing natural range of black bear? As in, before we 2 legged critters put the 4 legged critters into danger? I'm amazed we don't have them here, but they aren't too far away either.

 

[Cee Zee]

They were pretty much all over the US and Canada up until the start of the 20th century W.KY. Loss of habitat due to extensive logging spelled their doom for almost 100 years but they are certainly making a comeback with the help of the gubmit. Here's a map showing their historical range:



http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/black-bear/basic-bear-facts/37-black-bear-range.html

BTW Jim I think it's laughable to think that's Anchorage. Anchorage looks like this:

http://www.adn.com/article/anchorage-economy-uninterrupted-growth-nearly-quarter-century

 

[Sheepdog1968]

Never a bad idea to have some sort of firearm handy when in the woods (or in civilization for that matter). I get a bear tag when I get a deer tag but all I seem to ever see is the occasional track and poop for the bear.

 

[ElevenBravo]

^^^ Point is you want the bear down NOW, not 5 minutes from now. ADF&G shoots several nuisance bears a year in Anchorage and they use Rem 870's.

Not questioning shooting with a 12ga, but shooting magnum slugs is.... unpleasant, even for a big magnum fan like me. If you want to shoot magnums, by all means, but regular Remington rifled slugs are going to kill it just as dead without dislocating your shoulder.

 

[jamesinalaska]

Hey CeeZee, the picture you posted is LOS ANCHORAGE. The Anchorage that we all know (and sort of like) is more like Jim's picture.

 

[Cee Zee]

I don't have that much trouble with Brenneke Black Magic slugs as long as I don't shoot more than a couple of times. They will certainly give your shoulder a push but a good recoil pad does wonders. I would rather have a bruise than a fang in my neck if you get my drift. I don't expect either though.

Los Anchorage - good one. Anchorage has 300,000 residents. To find a city that big where my house is you would have to drive 100 miles or more.

 

[Davek1977]

"I don't care if you believe it or not. I know it's true"

Pretty sure that same exact line has been used to justify many a dubious story with absolutely nothing else that backs it throughout the years. I suppose these same people that are releasing bears near your home are the same people stocking hogs in states further and further noorth...or maybe its the same people trucking mountian lions into SD to establish a population? Or maybe its the same people doing the same sort of thing, but with wolves. I'm sorry, but I've heard all of the above at some point, always with the assurances "they don't want you to know, but I KNOW they did it". After hearing the claim so many times, with proof never, ever been provided...well, it loses its appeal or digestibility after awhile, ya know? SUre seems like there's a lot of "them" out there secretly stocking our woods with species not commonly found there....yet, no one has ever encountered these people, caught them in the act, or found any sort of documentation. Believing something in the absence of all proof, based on one person's assertion, seems rather foolish to me...but then again, this is the same guy whose arguing with an anchorage resident about what anchorage looks like. That speaks volumes

 

[TimSr]

No offense but as a 20 year Alaska resident I got a chuckle out of this thread. You feel threatened by bears in OHIO?

As an Ohio resident who has been to Alaska to hunt black bears, I get the same chuckle.

The part that is no laughing matter is the way in which sightings are being handled in areas that have not had any bears for decades, with total ignorance, fear and panic. We had a young boar traveling through the outskirts of the Akron suburb of Uniontown, OH last spring, and Uniontown PD got the call, arrived at the scene and prompty shot it to death because "it looked it it was movng toward a residential area".

Another one appeared in a more of a rural area bordering Wayne and Summit Co, and the sherriffs deputy took photos and posted on facebook, and people were afarid to go outdoors and were demanding it be killed.

Ignorance is so sad, that it really must be laughable to people who live in areas where bear sightings are as common as deer, and animal control calls concering bears are as normal as stray dog complaints. And its not just Anchorage. Many, many cities in the lower 48 have the occasional bears wandering in emtying bird feeders, tripping grabage cans, and eating pet food.

As a sidenote, when taking a hotel transport van from Anchorage Airport to hotel, I was excited to see a moose for the first time, crossing the street under the traffic light in front of us. I was also surprised at how small this "large" city by Alaskan standards was. This was in 1989. It must have grown immensely since then.