Black powder flintlock pistol help?

[spyder1911]

Hello everyone, I have been lurking on this forum for a long time but most of it was spent in the rifles and shotgun sections. The story behind this is that I got it from a family member. The bore is all rusted and pitted from what I can see. I was hoping that it would at least make the familiar shower of sparks from a flintlock. Well the trigger is detached from the rest of the firing mechanism. So I disassembled the pistol and got the flintlock assembly out. Then I tried to fire it out of the rifle pressing up on the lever which disengages the sear allowing the "flint arm" to fall toward the pan. The "flint" (I have no clue if it really is flint or not) did not even hit the frizzen at first since the clamp holding it in would hit first. After I adjusted it so that the "flint" was hitting first there was still no sparks. Well I know next to nothing about flintlocks but I do know that the frizzen would need to be make of (high carbon) steel and it does not look like this to my naked untrained eye. So this leaves me with three questions. First, How can I make this weapon so that it will produce the familiar shower of sparks? Second, how can I reattach the trigger so that it can function normally? Finally, would it even be worth taking this to a gunsmith to have it professionally reconditioned?

p.s. The pictures don't like you if you have 56k

 

[spyder1911]

More pictures

 

[4v50 Gary]

1) Remove the frizzen (also called in the olde days the steel or battery).
2) Coat in Casenite (could be Kasenite).
3) Put the frizzen on a coat hander and with a torch, heat it red.
4) Quench in oil.
5) Put it in an oven at 200 degrees F for an hour to temper.
6) Remount frizzen & try again. Using a piece of leather (dump that felt), make sure your flint is firmly clamped in the jaws. A loosely clamped flint won't generate sparks. In fact, try that first before you harden it.

 

[tkendrick]

Spyder,

Looks to me like most of the interior parts of the lock are missing!

It was a common practice to pin triggers in place, but it also looks like a lot of the wood that should be in the lock mortice (that's the hole in the stock where the lock and trigger go) is missing.

In all seriousness- hang it on the wall. It will make a great conversation piece, but I think you're going to have a hard time ever getting it to spark like you want.

 

[StrawHat]

tkendrick has a good idea about making it a wall hanger.

I recall Century Arms and Hunters Lodge selling these or similar in the 60s, I seem to recall they were made in the Middle East or some other sandy area.

From your photos, you seem to be missing a mainspring and lots more.

You could take it to a muzzleloading shoot and see what some of the shooters say.

Good luck

 

[4v50 Gary]

The lock isn't missing any parts. It's a reproduction which substitutes a coiled mainspring for the "V" spring we're familiar with. That coiled spring also provides tension for the return of the sear to its position of rest. So, it eliminated the need for a separate "V" spring for the sear. It's a rather clever adaptation of new technology to an old design. I'll pass though on the progress.

 

[tkendrick]

It's a reproduction which substitutes a coiled mainspring for the "V" spring we're familiar with. That coiled spring also provides tension for the return of the sear to its position of rest. So, it eliminated the need for a separate "V" spring for the sear.

Gary,

OK. I get that, in fact that's what I thought was going on when I saw the pics, just wasn't aware of anyone making one like that intentionally. I thought it was more along the lines of a Kansas farm boy make do.

So, now my curiosity is piqued.

That bar that extends back from the hammer pivot is the sear? So there must be a notch on the "tumbler" that isn't visible in the pics.

Interesting.

My experience with a lot of these type of "improvements" is much like yours I think. But one can't help but wonder what would happen if they were done by people with good gun making skills and quality materials.

 

[RecoilRob]

I think it is a fake..

Or, more correctly, a non-shooting replica meant for display only. Looking at the pics as closely as I can, the lockwork doesn't appear to be functional. The spring is there to make the hammer 'appear to move' when provoked and remain at rest when not.

The castings are crude and I'd wager that there is not a touch-hole that makes it into the chamber area.

If I'm correct, it would be nice to clean up and...as others have said...hang it on the wall as a decoration. It will never bark in anger.

 

[Pancho]

Spyder, I noticed two things one of which Gary touched on. forget the felt get yourself a piece of soft glove leather. Second, the flint should be advanced in the jaws. As I see it the flint,the way it is, would barely or not touch the frizzen.
Lastly, I don't have the foggiest notion how the trigger would work. It looks to me like it's missing a pivot. On closer inspection maybe there is a pivot hole but the picture is dark.
One other thing, I'm not a great camera pro but I found that I got better pictures if didn't use a white background.

 

[Bezoar]

first of all the first few pics, well you have to have the flint extended out from the jaws to contact the frizzen. and well, you dont have that happening, in the pictures you have the leather hitting the frizzen first, that will kill sparks.

Well the sandy geographic regions made some nice muzzleloading pistols in days past. however this could be repaired to function and shoot if wanted, but the barrel is the most iffy thing.
its safest as a wallhanger.

 

[spyder1911]

So there must be a notch on the "tumbler" that isn't visible in the pics.

I actually took a picture but figured that it wasn't worth putting up
P.S. The gun is not cocked in the picture, the notch you can see is the 1/2 cock and there is a second notch which is blocked in this picture

The castings are crude and I'd wager that there is not a touch-hole that makes it into the chamber area.

Just ran down stairs and looked and the touch hole does go all the way through but I noticed something else. At the end of the barrel, where the chamber would be on a regular firearm, there is no bottom part of the barrel It appears that there is just an upside-down U-shaped piece of sheet metal. So if someone were to try and load this, the BP would be sitting right on the wood of the pistol when it fired I'm glad I caught that, even though I never would have fired it without first having a Gunsmith take a look.

 

[4v50 Gary]

U-shaped piece of metal to simulate the barrel? A decorative piece, but not a gonne. Thanks for the close-up of the sear/tumbler.