Black powder in a 22lr?
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I can't get the heeled bullet back in... that would take a bit of effort and force, and that's not something I want to risk with rimfires.
I tried filling in the mouth of the case with a glob of quick-setting epoxy to fill up the volume of the case that the original bullet would, then placing the pellet. Same result. The pellet came out the barrel with a hard glob of epoxy trailing after it, and unignited powder spitting down the barrel.
I'll try half a grain of Bullseye or another really fast powder. If that doesn't work I'm giving up.
The weird thing I've figure from all this is that it really IS cheaper to shoot pellets with centerfire rifle primers than buy 22lr, especially specialty CB loads.
Now the trick is finding a .223 rifle at a reasonable price, what with the gun buying craze lately.
I tried filling in the mouth of the case with a glob of quick-setting epoxy to fill up the volume of the case that the original bullet would, then placing the pellet. Same result. The pellet came out the barrel with a hard glob of epoxy trailing after it, and unignited powder spitting down the barrel.
I'll try half a grain of Bullseye or another really fast powder. If that doesn't work I'm giving up.
The weird thing I've figure from all this is that it really IS cheaper to shoot pellets with centerfire rifle primers than buy 22lr, especially specialty CB loads.
Now the trick is finding a .223 rifle at a reasonable price, what with the gun buying craze lately.
arcticap
Member
The Crosman Quest is a decent cheap .22 spring air rifle for about $100 on sale. It shoots pellets at 800 fps. It does have some recoil but at least it works. And there's plenty of pre-compressed air and CO2 models that once set up will last a lifetime. I have storage tanks and guns that use both.
The better pre-charged target rifles and pistols will outshoot most rimfires and won't break the bank. As a matter of fact, they require more trigger discipline since they promote the Oympic sporting events that some of them are designed to compete in.
And if it is repeaters that you want, then those models are available too.
Shooting powders in the house is not ideal.
I try hard to contain just the pellet lead spatter by covering up the bullet trap and shooting into a small hole.
If you don't want to pay for Colibri's but would rather invest in a .223, then you're missing out on what it is that air guns can teach.
The precision shooting techniques, skills & methods are transferable between guns to a greater extent than even reloaded primer ammo can accomplish when compared to shooting the same centerfire gun.
Why? Because recoil is taken out the equation when a shooting a CF with just a primer and pellet. Plus the accuracy won't be there and it will still only be a single shot.
Meanwhile there's air guns that are repeaters that come in tons of configurations that are actually made to shoot the pellets accurately and safely without needing to shoot off primers indoors.
They even make air guns in centerfire calibers!
Lewis & Clark took hard hitting repeating air rifles that shot round balls all the way to the Pacific! There's a series of articles all about antique airguns on the Beeman website.
Good luck, I really do admire your persistence.
The better pre-charged target rifles and pistols will outshoot most rimfires and won't break the bank. As a matter of fact, they require more trigger discipline since they promote the Oympic sporting events that some of them are designed to compete in.
And if it is repeaters that you want, then those models are available too.
Shooting powders in the house is not ideal.
I try hard to contain just the pellet lead spatter by covering up the bullet trap and shooting into a small hole.
If you don't want to pay for Colibri's but would rather invest in a .223, then you're missing out on what it is that air guns can teach.
The precision shooting techniques, skills & methods are transferable between guns to a greater extent than even reloaded primer ammo can accomplish when compared to shooting the same centerfire gun.
Why? Because recoil is taken out the equation when a shooting a CF with just a primer and pellet. Plus the accuracy won't be there and it will still only be a single shot.
Meanwhile there's air guns that are repeaters that come in tons of configurations that are actually made to shoot the pellets accurately and safely without needing to shoot off primers indoors.
They even make air guns in centerfire calibers!
Lewis & Clark took hard hitting repeating air rifles that shot round balls all the way to the Pacific! There's a series of articles all about antique airguns on the Beeman website.
Good luck, I really do admire your persistence.
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Again, I have an airgun.
The shooting isn't really the point... I wanted to try something new that might be useful to people. I also am a firm believer in elegant simplicity and flexibility. I don't want a pellet rifle, a .22, and a centerfire or three, with several different ammo types for each.
My experiment here was to find out if I can have one rifle that can shoot outdoors and indoors with the same cheap Federal 22lr bricks.
I want one do-all utility firearm, one powder, one type of primer, and the option to change loads to take care of everything I need it for. Being able to shoot 14gr pellets and 80gr soft points from the same weapon is an appealing prospect. Probably will try to find a Saiga in .223 or scout-type bolt rifle.
The shooting isn't really the point... I wanted to try something new that might be useful to people. I also am a firm believer in elegant simplicity and flexibility. I don't want a pellet rifle, a .22, and a centerfire or three, with several different ammo types for each.
My experiment here was to find out if I can have one rifle that can shoot outdoors and indoors with the same cheap Federal 22lr bricks.
I want one do-all utility firearm, one powder, one type of primer, and the option to change loads to take care of everything I need it for. Being able to shoot 14gr pellets and 80gr soft points from the same weapon is an appealing prospect. Probably will try to find a Saiga in .223 or scout-type bolt rifle.
jjohnson
Member
*sigh*
Oh, man... I think Reloader Fred nailed it when he wrote
Okay, just in the name of science and for speculation only, I was thinking along the same lines about 40 years ago. Mind you, I never had an unscheduled explosion, but did at one time ignite a batch of rocket fuel on my buddy's kitchen stove which resulted in some smoke damage and a burned pan.
My thoughts in those days started with the "I wonder if...." line of thinking. One case in particular was gluing a BB on top of a .22 blank. Yep, it worked, but I'm sure even the copper plated BB I used didn't do any favors to the barrel.
If you were to take a Colibri apart, dump a tiny bit of smokeless powder (thereby defeating all the bad things we said about black powder) in there, and put, say, a .22 caliber pellet (airgun pellet) on there, you might have something more or less equal to a good CB cap with none of the quality control, accuracy, repeatability, safety, or anything else that makes so many of us shoot rimfire.
Don't try this at home, boys and girls. Pondering things like that for the sake of satisfying the curious mind is okay.
Do us a favor, though, and don't write back asking if it's okay to stick powder from a hundred match heads into a 30-06 case and stick a bolt in there. :banghead:
Oh, man... I think Reloader Fred nailed it when he wrote
Okay, just in the name of science and for speculation only, I was thinking along the same lines about 40 years ago. Mind you, I never had an unscheduled explosion, but did at one time ignite a batch of rocket fuel on my buddy's kitchen stove
which resulted in some smoke damage and a burned pan.My thoughts in those days started with the "I wonder if...." line of thinking. One case in particular was gluing a BB on top of a .22 blank. Yep, it worked, but I'm sure even the copper plated BB I used didn't do any favors to the barrel.
If you were to take a Colibri apart, dump a tiny bit of smokeless powder (thereby defeating all the bad things we said about black powder) in there, and put, say, a .22 caliber pellet (airgun pellet) on there, you might have something more or less equal to a good CB cap with none of the quality control, accuracy, repeatability, safety, or anything else that makes so many of us shoot rimfire.
Don't try this at home, boys and girls. Pondering things like that for the sake of satisfying the curious mind is okay.
Do us a favor, though, and don't write back asking if it's okay to stick powder from a hundred match heads into a 30-06 case and stick a bolt in there. :banghead:
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arcticap
Member
Then what do you call it when you go out and buy .22 pellets to assemble your own specialty rimfire ammo?
Or hand assemble some .223 cases with .22 pellets?
That's not using a single type of ammo either, not to mention the royal pain that they can be to assemble in any meaningful quantity.
I've thought about shooting .22 lr ammo indoors too, and thanks for the reinforcement about how shooting Colibri's and Super Colibri's are really the next best indoor option to airguns.
And the Colibri's only cost about .06 cents each!
Well, Pedersoli does sell parlor guns that shoot .177 pellets powered by#11 percussion caps.
Look at the Saloon, the Zimmer & the Derringer:
http://www.cherrys.com/ped_pist.htm
They also make a pellet barrel for another expensive competition pistol of theirs, but I've only seen it advertised in Germany.
Why not investigate building a similar caplock rifle or pistol that could shoot .22 airgun pellets with the primer type of your choice? I'm not sure how powerful it would be though even using the powerful #209 shotgun primer. But there have been related experiments:
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/parlor_pistol/parlor_pistol.html
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/electric_ml/electricml.html
Does anyone have any idea if there would be any headspacing problems using homemade .223 pellet ammo or what the potential velocity might be when shooting the primed cases loaded with .22 pellets?
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arcticap
Member
New Pedersoli #209 Parlor Pistol
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5234900#post5234900
It's a Derringer that shoots .177 round balls and pellets.
At Cabela's:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...parentType=index&parentId=cat20817&id=0065767
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5234900#post5234900
Carl N. Brown
Member
The .22 rimfire started with the Smith & Wesson revolver in the 1850s as a black powder cartridge. .22 short, long, long rifle and .22WRF were all black powder cartridges. When Winchester and Remington introduced their first .22 autoloaders in the 1900s they also introduced prorietary, smokeless powder only cartridges, .22 Remington and .22 Winchester, because black powder was still commonly loaded in .22 long rifle, and black powder and autolaoding actions are a bad mix.
The opening post starts: "*****DISCLAIMER***** I like to tinker and experiment.... " Well, experimenting with black powder .22 is about as retro as I can imagine, and in the long run, it does has some appeal, kinda like loading for a flintlock or cap'n'ball black powder cenerfire cartridge. But I'll limit my urge to trying to develop a good BP load for my Webley revolver.
The opening post starts: "*****DISCLAIMER***** I like to tinker and experiment.... " Well, experimenting with black powder .22 is about as retro as I can imagine, and in the long run, it does has some appeal, kinda like loading for a flintlock or cap'n'ball black powder cenerfire cartridge. But I'll limit my urge to trying to develop a good BP load for my Webley revolver.
If you do get the 223 there is an even easier way to use air rifle pellets in it.
Take your empty case and bore out the primer pocket to accept a shotgun primer. Bore this hole all the way through the head of the case. Now get a short rod ( 5 or 6 inches) and shape the end to hold the skirt of the air pellet. Insert the pellet through the case and into the neck of the 223 casing. Prime with a shotgun primer and you are ready to practice.
Good luck.
Here is something you might find interesting.
http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=6080.0
Take your empty case and bore out the primer pocket to accept a shotgun primer. Bore this hole all the way through the head of the case. Now get a short rod ( 5 or 6 inches) and shape the end to hold the skirt of the air pellet. Insert the pellet through the case and into the neck of the 223 casing. Prime with a shotgun primer and you are ready to practice.
Good luck.
Here is something you might find interesting.
http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=6080.0
Busyhands94
Member
you could cut the pyrotechnic compound off paper caps and put a few caps worth in there. it will leave few specks of paper in the bore but other than that it is fine.
blarby
Member
a few things not powder related that may help :
Crossman SSP ( Super Sonic Pellet ) for three reasons :
1. The pellet is considerably lighter than a standard lead pellet, and will help with your power to weight ratio.
2. Skirt size : Has a noticeably thicker skirt, for ease of mounting on your cases.
3. Whatever compound/alloy they use to make these pellets...it engages rifling very very well.
BTW, that "nail glue" you've been salvaging is essentially zap-a-gap , a cryo superglue used for modeling....you can purchase it in varying strengths and viscosities to fit your needs....including one that flows almost like water ( which I reckon you could use the snot out of with practice) I use these glues a lot in my modeling.
As for powder, the original 22 powder is great, or perhaps a few flakes of unique ?
I will be following this thread....very interesting !
Crossman SSP ( Super Sonic Pellet ) for three reasons :
1. The pellet is considerably lighter than a standard lead pellet, and will help with your power to weight ratio.
2. Skirt size : Has a noticeably thicker skirt, for ease of mounting on your cases.
3. Whatever compound/alloy they use to make these pellets...it engages rifling very very well.
BTW, that "nail glue" you've been salvaging is essentially zap-a-gap , a cryo superglue used for modeling....you can purchase it in varying strengths and viscosities to fit your needs....including one that flows almost like water ( which I reckon you could use the snot out of with practice) I use these glues a lot in my modeling.
As for powder, the original 22 powder is great, or perhaps a few flakes of unique ?
I will be following this thread....very interesting !
Wow! Glad I didn't ask a simple question. Some of you jumped on the O.P. with both feet!
If you, the O.P., are using a bolt action or single shot, try seating the pellet in the chamber/bore then inserting an empty primed case. Schutzen competetors used to do it all the time, called "Breech Seating"...
If you, the O.P., are using a bolt action or single shot, try seating the pellet in the chamber/bore then inserting an empty primed case. Schutzen competetors used to do it all the time, called "Breech Seating"...
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