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Black Powder Revolver/Pistol

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by vsorrentino, Jan 1, 2011.

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  1. vsorrentino

    vsorrentino Member

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  2. junkman_01

    junkman_01 member

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    Firearmpop,

    All I can say is WOW! So many foibles and safety violations, it's amazing you didn't have an accident. You had better hang around here a bit and learn *** you are doing! BTW, you can not overload and blow up a C&B revolver when using loose black powder.
     
  3. cane

    cane Member

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    PLEASE, remove that video before someone follows your example and ends up dead or seriously injured!
     
  4. PRM

    PRM Member

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    Wow ~ muzzle toward chest while seating the balls. Why would you post this on the internet? I see, its not capped ~ but where did muzzle consciousness go to on this outing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2011
  5. Shoot The Moon

    Shoot The Moon Member

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    Glad you enjoyed shooting, but as per the comments above please rethink your safety/loading procedure. You are breaking several of the 'commandments' - for instance:

    Never point the muzzle at something you are not prepared to destroy or kill
    (there's a guy on here who just perforated his ankle with his Glock by not observing this..)
    Treat all firearms as loaded at all times
    (Glock guy would have sworn his pistol was clear before he 'dry' fired it into his ankle)

    Don't be put off cap and ball (or us here!) but please, for your own safety...
     
  6. rdstrain49

    rdstrain49 Member

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    Self removal from the gene pool imminent.
     
  7. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    It has been suggested to use a cheater bar on the short lever pistols to aid with loading.

    See Hellgate's post #3:

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=548411&highlight=cheater

    Another tip is to remove the cylinder and load using a loading press like in McGunner's post #21:

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=522633&highlight=cheater

    Or use a portable loading stand that will hold the pistol vertical and in a safe direction while loading using the cheater bar. They're available from Dixie or other outfits, or make one yourself.

    http://www.dixiegunworks.com/produc...=7768&osCsid=7915499ebd678f9945d33fd30b28a52f

    Beside that you did a good job keeping the video interesting.
    I'm sure that a lot of folks have similar trouble loading the short barreled guns.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2011
  8. pohill

    pohill Member

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    14 minutes and 11 seconds long. I made it to 10 minutes 3 seconds and I had to shut it down (he was loading with the barrel into his chest). I could feel brain cells melting and I got worried.
     
  9. average_shooter

    average_shooter Member

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    Looks like "constructive" criticism has gone the way of the dinosaur with some folks. We should be all about educating people here, not putting them down. Let's keep things High Road.

    vsorrentino is self-admittedly brand-spanking-new to black powder from the sounds of it.

    Kudos for the admission and for trying something new. Now you're aware of some safety issues, you can learn and move forward.

    I'm not sure how much reading or instruction you've gotten regarding BP, but there are some things I think you could use to make life more enjoyable and cheaper in the long run. For now I'll say stick around, do a bunch of reading, and learn some of the tricks the long-time BP shooters use. (For example, I can't see myself paying $10 for a package of lubed wads, I've heard of people using Crisco shortening over the ball instead, and I use a Crisco/Beeswax homemade lube for my BP cartridge bullets personally.)
     
  10. pohill

    pohill Member

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    It's hard to educate a dead man. If you don't know how to do something, especially something dangerous, ask before you do it.
    That's as constructive as I can get.
     
  11. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    He was wearing a glove on his shooting hand in anticipation of possibly getting burned which has happened to folks here before. That was a nice touch that required forethought, as was wearing the recommended hearing and eye protection which many don't always do either.
    Just because he loaded the gun with it pointed at his chest doesn't mean that many other folks don't lean with their head over the barrel when they load. I have no doubt that some folks do it that way.
    The powder in a partially loaded cap and ball chamber still requires an ignition source to go off.
    That missing element made it so that no one is a dead man, at least not unless we're all walking, talking dead men who are still discussing black powder. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2011
  12. junkman_01

    junkman_01 member

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    But we hopefully don't make videos on Youtube for the whole world to copy unsafe practices and procedures.
     
  13. pohill

    pohill Member

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    If I saw a young kid handling a gun like that, admittedly not knowing what he was doing, it'd be along time before he touched a gun again.
    Loading a gun with the barrel pressed against your chest? No excuse, cap or no cap. A glove in anticipation of getting burned? The fact that he might get burned should have been a tip-off for him to seek instructions.
    You can be as PC as you want, and point to all that he did correctly, but at some point, if we don't police our own, they will do it for us.
     
  14. TnRebel

    TnRebel Member

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    Hey someone ( any of the naysayers ) please explain to this old hillbilly why it was so bad to load a black powder pistol with the barrel pointing at the chest or shoulder aria ?

    There was no caps on the chambers , and if there was a spark left in the chambers it would ignite when the powder was inserted . JMHO.
     
  15. Shoot The Moon

    Shoot The Moon Member

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    For me, it's more about avoiding bad practice than the technicalities of whether the gun could go off. By having these golden rules, we manage the risks of working with firearms. I'll try to elaborate....

    Muzzle control is one of the key safety factors in all shooting - the easiest way to avoid an accident is to never point the gun at something that you don't want to shoot. Now I know, we cannot 100% comply - ie putting the gun into a car, inspecting the bore, etc - but if we do all that can be reasonably done to avoid pointing the muzzle of a firearm at ourselves or others, it minimises the risk immensely. As a proof point, I would point to the poor guy here on THR that shot himself in the ankle recently - the accident would never have happened if he had observed this rule. Also, he believed 100% that the chamber of his pistol was clear - yet when he dry fired, he found he was wrong.

    I hope this isn't seen as being picky or being over-zealous. I'm genuninely pleased that vsorrentino enjoys his cap and ball revo - we all know how great they are to shoot - but basic stuff like this needs pointing out, even moreso when the possibility of these errors being copied and perpetuated by other inexperienced shooters exists.
     
  16. Black Toe Knives

    Black Toe Knives Member

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    Pointing the gun toward the chest, that is not bad as putting a live cap under the hammer, the second load. That is true disaster waiting to happen and it will get someone hurt.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2011
  17. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    How the gun was loaded was not an example of an ideal loading practice. However it was not unlawful.
    It's been mentioned time and again how an uncapped muzzle loader is considered by law to be unloaded.
    Such uncapped muzzle loaders are legal to transport in cars and inside of soft cases and such going to and from hunting areas and in public.
    And while they are being transported they are being pointed at things, you or I or our family members or at passing cars or even at people who are at the local gun club.
    I would be shocked if someone told a person who transported a gun in such condition to their shooting range that they had made some kind a of gross mistake.
    These legally transported uncapped guns are in the same firing condition as the revolver that was being pointed at the poster's chest. Yet no one ever complains that the person transporting such a gun is a dead man or is a horrible accident waiting to happen.
    I think that many of us have transported uncapped hunting guns inside gun cases that very same way without anyone else knowing that what was being pointed in their direction was an uncapped but otherwise loaded muzzle loader. And I might add, loaded with much more powder.
    Sure, the loading procedure in the video needs to be improved, but the loading mistake also need to be kept in perspective.
    Perhaps another video using an improved loading procedure or a warning could be inserted into the video so that folks are made aware that there are better loading methods that don't require as much of a struggle and display better muzzle control.
    But how does that teach folks that transport guns in the exact same condition inside of their car or when walking around with them inside of a case going to the range or woods to shoot them off?
    None of us will ever be sure of what's inside of another person's gun case, and I'm sure that we have all had gun cases pointed at us at some point in our lives, or have pointed our own cases at others.
    I don't spend time worrying about it because by law, the gun is considered to be unloaded and not able to fire.
    So let's not cast stones or lose perspective over it. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2011
  18. pohill

    pohill Member

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    Let's see - he has no idea how much Pryodex to use or how much is in the pellets (does anyone know?)
    He loads the gun with the barrel into his chest.
    He does not remove the saved ring of lead.
    He caps the gun with the muzzle pointing into the table.
    At one point his cupped hand is in front of the loaded cylinder.
    Did you catch the time the hammer slipped from his thumb onto a loaded and capped cylinder?
    This guy should be the Poster Boy for how not to load a BP revolver.
    I'm sure he's a great guy but he should not be instructing anyone in this sport. He treats the gun like a toy.
    But, it's all legal.
     
  19. average_shooter

    average_shooter Member

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    Package is marked as being for use in revolvers. And he reads the label in the video. It's the right stuff for his use.

    Already addressed by others.

    Forgive me, but how critical is that if the rings just slough off the cylinder face when firing anyway?



    Would you rather he capped it pointing at himself? How is the table and the ground to be considered not a safe direction for loading? I point my SAA at the ground or a table all the time when loading it, can't point it at the sky and load it.

    A safety concern that can be corrected through education.

    Pointed downrange, not much of a concern there. Hammer slipping is bound to occur at some point with a revolver. He had the pistol pointed downrange when loaded.

    pohill;
    The bottom line here is that this forum is not boot camp, whether you're a drill instructor in real life or not, we shouldn't be here trying to teach by cutting each other down, which is what your method is coming across as. We can address faults respectfully and bring people's awareness up, not simply tell them to go pound sand and that they shouldn't be participating in the sport.
     
  20. mykeal

    mykeal Member

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    Nobody said it was.
    There's a world of difference between intentionally pointing a gun at someone, even yourself, and the direction a barrel is pointing while the gun is inside a case or a holster and not being handled. The issue is called muzzle control, that is, being incomplete control of your gun while you are handling it. If you cannot control the muzzle when you believe (ie, 'know') it's unloaded, you will not control it when its loaded, because you do not have the discipline necessary to do so. You're sloppy, sorry, but there's no other way to put it. Simply not in control, period. And being intentionally undisciplined with a firearm is simply unjustifiable. Your argument, that the muzzle is always pointed at something, so therefore it's ok to intentionally point it at a live human being because you think maybe it's unloaded, is rationally vacant. You're unsafe, that's all there is to it.
     
  21. pohill

    pohill Member

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    You can defend this guy as much and as long as you want, you can imitate his techniques - that's your right. But, please, do not shoot at any range that I, or my family and friends, are on. If it takes a drill sergeant to make a range safe, so be it. Wise up.
     
  22. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    You who? I didn't make the video and I wasn't in the video.

    You who? I didn't make the video and I wasn't in the video.

    When an uncapped muzzle loader is in it's case, I not only think that it's unloaded, I know that it's unloaded and being transported in total accordance with the law.
    It seems that you have a gripe about the law regarding what does and does not constitute a loaded muzzle loader. You should take it up with the law makers rather than resort to low road personal attacks with those that believe in and uphold the law as it is written. By attacking the messenger rather than the message, it shows that your argument truly is irrational. My argument is based on the rationality of clearly established law.


    You who is unsafe? I didn't make the video and I wasn't in the video.

    I simply chose to defend the rights of a gun owner who acted within the law.
    That's the mission of this forum and the high road that I chose to follow.
    Some folks seem to forget that the OP's 2nd Amendment right to learn to shoot his cap & ball revolver has relatively greater importance then their complaints. And that applies to him making and posting a video about it too. If someone doesn't agree that an uncapped muzzle loader is considered to be unloaded under the law, then that's their problem.
    If folks want to irritate others by flooding their local range with black powder smoke or by causing someone else who is shooting there to have an asthma attack than that's their right and I would defend it. People brag about doing that all of the time.
    I don't tell other people what to do.
    We all have to choose whether to defend a person's 2nd Amendment right in any given situation or not. I just happen to be more of a staunch 2A supporter than some others here happen to be.
    That's all.
    Molon labe! :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2011
  23. frontloader

    frontloader Member

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    I would love to video some of you "PROS" shooting.
     
  24. Mp7

    Mp7 Member

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    Don´t appreciate the tonality of comments and the length of them.

    OP is lucky to to not have had an accident.
    Hopefully this Sh..storm here teaches him.

    Whenever you do something potentially dangerous
    read up on it on the web. That´s what it´s for.
    A lot of theoretical wisdom can be had here.

    At least u will know u r doin something not right, ans stop doin it.


    02$.
     
  25. mykeal

    mykeal Member

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    All those of you who feel that controlling the muzzle of a gun isn't necessary, whether you 'know' it's loaded or not. If that describes you, then you are who I'm talking to, regardless of your participation or lack of it in a public demonstration of unsafe gun handling.

    That's not true and you know it. I've made no statement one way or another regarding the legal definition of a loaded muzzleloader. My entire thesis, since the beginning of this thread and in other threads containing displays of unsafe gun handling, is that failing to control the muzzle of a gun is unsafe and unacceptable, and that intentionally pointing a gun at yourself or anyone else, whether it's loaded or not, is even worse behavior.

    You fail to recognize that my point contains no caveat for an unloaded gun. It has always been my point that lack of muzzle control discipline, including intentional acts, is unsafe whether the gun is loaded or not, so your rant regarding the legal definition of loaded, and the attempt to deflect the discussion into a RKBA argument, is irrelevant to my case and does not justify the unsafe behavior.

    Once again, since you don't seem to understand the point: Never point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot. Notice that this statement refers to an act of volition, and that it contains no caveat for an unloaded gun. That's because it refers to discipline - you either have it or you don't. If you don't, you are much more likely to make the mistake of pointing a loaded gun at someone (intentionally or unintentionally), and that's simply unacceptable. We're all human, and we all make mistakes. I cannot, and would never, claim that I've never made the mistake of pointing a loaded gun at someone. I do claim that I try very hard to treat every gun as if it was loaded all the time, and to never point it at something I don't want to shoot. That discipline (not the action) becomes automatic, and makes the inevitable mistakes much less frequent.

    So, kindly address the real point of my argument, and cease attempting to put words in my mouth or infer meanings that are not stated.
     
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