Blasphemy and heresy in the land of the snake.

[Hawk]

After reading posts from the legions of happy owners I finally caved and bought a Python – a brushed stainless version in 6".

The only rub is… I don't particularly like it. I likely overpaid for it so I prefer fixing it or me rather than selling it.

Since this is the revolver that showed up with the crane retaining doohickey installed backwards and upside-down, it dawns on me it might simply not be right. 'Course it could be fine and I'm just used to the 686.

The trigger stacks bad right before the hammer drops. It seems heavier than my old 686 and as heavy or heavier than an Anaconda. If the 686 is 12 pounds, I’d guess the Python at 14 or 15 – this is guesswork as my trigger gauge doesn't go past 6 pounds (treat the numbers as "relative"). When the hammer drops the cylinder is welded in place – no play at all. The Anaconda's lockwork seems closer to the Smith than the Python (apart from that whole clockwise thing) – miniscule rotational play like the Smith and less pronounced stacking.

The 686, the Anaconda and the Python were all purchased used – I have no idea if the former two were enhanced, the latter buggered, both or neither. I don't know anyone with a Python to compare to see if mine's a dog.

What is a Python trigger supposed to feel like? There’s no turn line on the thing – should I put a couple hundred rounds through it to see if slicks up? Perhaps just an issue of me being used to the 686 and needing more time with the snake?

 

[Snapping Twig]

If you were to open up the Python, you'd see a bit more complex lockwork than a Smith.

One of the reasons Pythons were so much more expensive than a 586/686 had to do with the labor intensive action job they needed to function with the butter feel they were so famous for. Without it, they feel like the tractor you're describing.

I'd say, get with a gunsmith that knows these pistols and have them evaluate the action. Perhaps it's a simple thing.

 

[ewayte]

Grant Cunningham

You need to visit Grant Cunningham's home page and read his article, "What Is a Good Trigger? He's a revolver specialist, and Colt's are what he's known for. He does work on other wheelguns, except for Taurus...

 

[saltydog452]

hawk,

i live in nw dallas. i have a 4'' python, untinkered with, but carried frequently, circa mid-60s i think.

i am unable to drive for the next few weeks, but if you aren't in a large hurry and willing to wait, send me a pm/e-mail msg in a month or so. we can meet at a range and you can compare the two.

salty.

 

[Hawk]

Well, I had other business at my FFL today and asked her to take a look at the olde Colt.

I am advised that there's nothing wrong with the Python apart from some singular bad luck in having been afflcted with an insensitive mutant lout of an owner with little appreciation for the finer things.

Hmmmph. Well, I don't like caviar either - smells all fishy 'n stuff.

I guess I'll try to get accustomed to the thing. Mr. Cunningham reports he has a 9 month waiting list and I gather that reducing the Colt stack will add weight to a single action trigger which starts out not being something one would write home to mother about anyway. I'll give 'er 500 rounds and will likely come to be one of the faithful. It's not that it's bad, my expectations were probably over-inflated.

 

[dfariswheel]

Colt still offers action tuning to improve the Python trigger, and if you're willing to wait, Cylinder & Slide does what is probably the best custom super-tune job available today.
Colt's action job is very good, their pricing is very good and turn around is much faster.

Other things you can do to improve the trigger is to use a good Teflon grease on the internals, and simply shoot the gun.
Shooting and dry firing will smooth the action, AND you'll get more accustomed to it.
A lot of people have problems with the old style Colt trigger simply because they "grew up" on S&W and Ruger actions, and the Colt DOES feel "different".

And last, some people just plain don't like the Colt action feel, just like some people don't like the S&W or Ruger action.

 

[DogBonz]

I have two.

I have two pythons. Both are 6” blue models made in 1967 and 1968. the 67 is my safe queen, the 68 is my shooter. Both have excellent triggers but do stack. That is how the Pythons are because they use the “old” type of spring set up. Stacking is unavoidable with this type of spring action. The Smith’s trigger may feel lighter, but that is usually because the Smith will give you a linear pull where the Python’s stacking will trick you into thinking that it is heavier than it is because it starts to move the hammer with very little force. The typical Python’s trigger will also be smoother than your average Smith’s. This is a bit more subjective, but a Python’s trigger should not be gritty.

When in “lock-up” that cylinder should not move at all. Pythons have that “bank vault” lockup and while my 68’s cylinder can be moved just a hair (well, half a hair), my 67’s has that “welded to the frame feel”, but the 68 has been shot a lot… and I do mean a lot.

Hope that helps a little, and don’t worry, the Python’s trigger may feel a bit awkward at first, especially if you are used to the Smith’s, but once you get used to it you will love it.

 

[Hawk]

I'll try the teflon grease and just shooting the thing.

I have very little experience with revolvers - all is recent and most I've attempted to blame on Fuff without conspicuous success with the spousal unit.

I'm inclined to believe it's strictly due to my starting with the 686 and the Anaconda being more similar to the Smith than it is to the Python although this is somewhat of a mystery.

One conjecture is that the Python doesn't "stage" like the Smith does. My attempts to do so (stage) flumuxed (technical term) me into thinking the trigger was worse than it really is. If I just "pull through" the Python most of the problems go away. I was holding back as it seemed "slamming" the cylinder into the bolt wasn't the right thing to do. With the S&W, one can "gentle" the cylinder into lock. I've no idea if the foregoing makes a lick of sense but the lockworks seem different - not better or worse, but different.

My FFL caught me trying to "stage" the Python and indicated that wasn't the right way to deal with it. She pulled it through in one smooth motion and when I tried it, things seemed much improved.

Anyhow, I'm of the opinion that those extolling the virtues of the Python are correct and my taste just needs refining.



But I'll still not like caviar.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Pythons are terrible guns. They're just awful. Their double action pulls stack, plus they're heavy. Their single action pulls are too light, so light, in fact, they're positively dangerous. They're overpriced.

Tell you what: I'll take it off you hands and dispose of it safely for you.

Seriously: lots of Pythons left the factory in dire need of trigger work. They really are grossly over-rated guns until they're slicked up properly.

 

[Rexster]

A Python's trigger pull is different from that of Rugers and Smiths, so until you are used to it, it will feel strange. It is also a bit longer of a DA stroke, IIRC. IMHO, a Python is at its best as a single action sixgun, that can be fired DA in an emergency. I liked my GP100 and S&Ws better, and sold or traded my Python long ago.

 

[Hawk]

Pythons are terrible guns. They're just awful. Their double action pulls stack, plus they're heavy. Their single action pulls are too light, so light, in fact, they're positively dangerous. They're overpriced.

Got any you're looking to get rid of?

We can set our own trend by you selling me yours on the cheap.

...I'm ready to learn. Nine months for Cunningham seems a bit much, but I've already learned a lot from that guy so I guess I should celebrate his job security.

Seriously: lots of Pythons left the factory in dire need of trigger work. They really are grossly over-rated guns until they're slicked up properly.

I think you nailed it and I have one of 'em.
More heresy: I wonder how many others have one and don't feel like pointing out the emperors (lack of) wardrobe.?

(I'm still going to try to adapt - the expression on the FFL's face - like I had 3 heads, leads me to believe there's nothing wrong with the thing).

 

[SaxonPig]

I suspect that you simply don't like the feel of the Colt trigger. Many S&W shooters don't and swear the trigger pull is heavier than their Smiths.

I have no experience with stainless Pythons but the five carbon steel Pythons I have had over the years all had smooth actions and good triggers.

Either you got a bad one or you just hate the Colt trigger. I suggest you sell the Python and buy a 27-2 if you prefer S&W and want a top flight 357.

 

[Old Fuff]

Hawk:

I suspect that a lot of your trouble is in a mis-adjusted "V" mainspring. The hammer is supposed to fall before the two leafs come together, and if they do come together they can't flex properly anymore. If you remove the stocks and cock the hammer while watching the mainspring you can see this happen - if indeed it is happening. There are a number of ways to correct this involving both the spring and the rebound lever that it sets on.

This said, even the best set-up Pythons have some stacking, and experienced PPC match shooters that used them took advantage of this when shooting double-action because they could detect the exact moment the hammer was going to be released. While the "straight pull" method works fine with S&W revolvers it isn't necessarily the best way with a Colt.

Back in the days before World War Two, and for a time afterwards, shooters who were into double-action shooting usually prefered the S&W platform, especially with that company's famous and unequaled "long action." But bullseye target shooters picked the Colt, because of it's more accurate barrel combined with the action's bank vault lock-up. Some who did use S&W revolvers for paper-punching went so far as to have their guns rebarreled with Colt barrels.

Each of these revolver designs have their advantages and disadvantages. I think that some minor work on your Python's innards will eliminate most if not all of your objections. In any case, set up a target at 50 yards and bench it with some 148 grain .38 Special mid-range wadcutters. I suspect that after that you'll understand why people pay big bucks to buy them. Like Smith & Wesson's 1930's registered .357 Magnums it represents a class of handgun making we won't see again. The future will be defined by words like "polymer," and "metal injected molding."

 

[jrhines]

Don't know how it "feels",but...

I do know how it looks. This is a scan of a clients Python, un-fooled-around-with except for a detail strip, clean & lube. You can see the cylinder adds about a pound to the pull.

 

[jetman]

I've had a couple Pythons and am a huge Colt wheelgun fan. While granted they are a little different that the Anaconda action it does take a little getting used to the Python action. Mine were always butter smooth but did stack a liitle right before the hammer drop. I would highly suggest sending it in to Colt to have them go through it for you. They still work wonders with the intricate lockwork of these fine pistols. Have them go through it for you. They are very reasonably priced for the work they perform and usually will have it back in your hands in less than a month. If you have them clean it up and you still aren't pleased let me know and I'll give you a resonable price for it.

 

[Old Fuff]

I don't think you can get rid of all stacking, without getting a mushy action. The fact is that Colt intended there should be a little stacking as a signal to the shooter using the double action mode that the hammer was about to fall. In single action it should be hardly noticeable. Fact is, that during the 19th century S&W designed some of their top-break revolvers to slightly stack too - for the same reason Colt did.

I suppose that the solution to the stacking issue is to buy/use S&W or Ruger double action revolvers, but then some would miss the gilt-edge accuracy that's a Colt hallmark.

So take your choice...

 

[Majic]

My FFL caught me trying to "stage" the Python and indicated that wasn't the right way to deal with it. She pulled it through in one smooth motion and when I tried it, things seemed much improved.

Actually that's how most advise to shoot the S&W action. The Colt action is designed to stack so staging for target shooting is much easier for those used to that action. A lot of S&W need a good trigger job to allow decent staging for target shooting.

 

[Hawk]

Well, I hauled if off to another gunsmith* - this one said it was a "1" if Colt's original Pythons were rated on a "1 to 10". This guy never had Pythons every other time I ever visited but this time he had a Royal Blue 6" he'd taken on trade. I got to play with the double action.

Don't know if this makes any sense, but the difference was subtle and simultaneously distinct - enough of a difference that the sights didn't "pull" off target even with my weak double-action-fu. I liked it - a lot. The "trigger profile" if you will, felt pretty similar to the stainless one - stacking and all that but was a lot smoother and felt lighter.

I left the stainless Python with instructions that he should "make this one just like that one" and left happy.

and, yeah, I bought the blued one and put 100 rounds through it on the way home - I'm one of the faithful, now. There's probably something wrong with it as it was under 1K but I don't care - 'tis sweet.


*Pioneer on Bedford road for those in THR-DFW.

 

[Old Fuff]

I left the stainless Python with instructions that he should "make this one just like that one" and left happy.

Are you sure he knows how too do it? Today very few gunsmith have enough experience, and the Colt action requires a specialist. It isn't difficult to ruin the internals.

 

[Hawk]

He's done me right on other stuff. I couldn't swear to it but I think he brokers out anything he's uncomfortable with. If age has anything to do with it, he's way older than I am and I think I'm older than Fuff.

Edited to add: it's unclear if he could make it much worse. If he does, well, I've been looking for an excuse to mail something to Grant anyway. And he did state he could do it without lightening the strike.

 

[Old Fuff]

It's unclear if he could make it much worse. If he does, well, I've been looking for an excuse to mail something to Grant anyway. And he did state he could do it without lightening the strike.

Grant didn't plan of getting it after someone else messed it up....

No one is older then the Fuff. Little Sammy Colt would have never got his revolving pistol off the ground if I hadn't told him how too do it...

 

[Hawk]

No one is older then the Fuff. Little Sammy Colt would have never got his revolving pistol off the ground if I hadn't told him how too do it..

Ah well, he's kind of a buddy as well - if he says he's qualified I'll take it at face value unless and until he proves otherwise. It's not like I'm qualified to know if he's qualified. It sounded like I was getting a full cleaning and some grease - not much more than Dfariswheel was suggesting. There's not much needs done. He's specifically not taking it beyond how Colt shipped most Pythons - it's not really getting enhanced - just brought to what Colt usually did which I would hope doesn't involve anything radical.

Besides, he was old when Colt introduced the thing in '58. Granted, that's not the same as having input on the Patterson.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

"double-action-fu" Bwahahahaahahaaaaaaaa! That's sweet. I'm gonna adopt that phrase.
I have to agree with Standing Wolf. The Big Money colts are way overrated until someone who knows what they are doing works on them. Like tattoo artists, gunsmiths worth their salt have a waiting list and are worth both waiting and paying for.

 

[Rover 'n Rugers]

Python Tuning

As noted above both Grant Cunningham and Cylinder and Slide tune Pythons. Another person that does is Walt Sherman (5846 Tea Rose Trail; Tallalhassee, FL 32311). He is supposed to have been an armorer for the Florida Hwy Patrol back when they used Pythons (anyhow, that is what I heard). He does a roller action tune which reduces the double action way down along with stacking and retains the single action unlike the C&S roller action conversions of S&W). He also offers the roller tune on Smith K, L, N frames. The one he tuned for me had a 6.5 lb DA and 2.75 lb SA.

The old method of reducing stacking was to heat the rear of the trigger shelf and curve it. The problem is this made reducing SA below 4 lb difficult. There are a couple of other methods. One developed by Austin Behlert was to groove the trigger shelf for the double action sear or hammer strut which elminated stacking and allowed a light SA pull. I believe a pistolsmith whose name I don't recall except I think the first name was Dave and he is in Arizona now and a retired police officer learned this from Austin. There are a couple of other methods, also, that can be used to eliminate stacking.

The action in an Anaconda is different in feel and design compared to the Python and other older Colts.